2020 Official Playoffs Thread

[Luke_FfS 247]

I agree that tank again is not the solution.

We probably overvalue our young talent too, but it's the team that doesn't work as a whole.

I think that it's not a matter or blowing it out and bottom out, but just to be proactive. We've discussed a lot of teams that are very good again without even picking a top 5 player. And if you want to get a good example of being proactive, just look at Dallas:

- they have two great players and also cap space in the near future if I remember correctly.

- they've worked their way into both of those players, and not waited for luck... Porzingis trade was risky, and still depends on his health. Luka looks like an MVP now, but before the draft, there were a lot of questions about him even if everyone forgets it now (adapting, physicality, speed, etc) and they traded to get him while others passed on him.

- their coach is not young by any means, but it's a great one that is able to change his style and adapt to the players he has, not the other way. He maximizes their qualities (and their trade value too). He's not afraid of taking risky decisions.

- How many undrafted or little know players are into their rotation now? Or were traded as value to get other players? All of them having a bigger role than their salaries. Roles are clear and who plays hard will find his space. They maximize their talent and their trade value.

 

We can say the same of our team? How many boxes we check? How many players underperforming their salary? How many not used correctly?

Tank is not the solution, but accept mediocrity like the FO has done in all their decisions isn't either. Making moves obviously has a big % of risk too, but proactive means that you're at least trying and eventually accepting the consequences. And unfortunately, I don't envision any big change in the future, given the info we have now.

 

[OnlyFranz 289]

13 minutes ago, Luke_FfS said:

I agree that tank again is not the solution.

We probably overvalue our young talent too, but it's the team that doesn't work as a whole.

I think that it's not a matter or blowing it out and bottom out, but just to be proactive. We've discussed a lot of teams that are very good again without even picking a top 5 player. And if you want to get a good example of being proactive, just look at Dallas:

- they have two great players and also cap space in the near future if I remember correctly.

- they've worked their way into both of those players, and not waited for luck... Porzingis trade was risky, and still depends on his health. Luka looks like an MVP now, but before the draft, there were a lot of questions about him even if everyone forgets it now (adapting, physicality, speed, etc) and they traded to get him while others passed on him.

- their coach is not young by any means, but it's a great one that is able to change his style and adapt to the players he has, not the other way. He maximizes their qualities (and their trade value too). He's not afraid of taking risky decisions.

- How many undrafted or little know players are into their rotation now? Or were traded as value to get other players? All of them having a bigger role than their salaries. Roles are clear and who plays hard will find his space. They maximize their talent and their trade value.

 

We can say the same of our team? How many boxes we check? How many players underperforming their salary? How many not used correctly?

Tank is not the solution, but accept mediocrity like the FO has done in all their decisions isn't either. Making moves obviously has a big % of risk too, but proactive means that you're at least trying and eventually accepting the consequences. And unfortunately, I don't envision any big change in the future, given the info we have now.

 

Bravo my friend well said! You get it and that’s refreshing to hear. Serious changes need to be made but we know it won’t happen because of this FO/Ownership. Can’t change a losing team culture when the people who are leading are the problem. 

[All Eyes On Me 1,194]

7 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

Yea one thing the bubble has highlighted to me is that Fultz has a long way to go to even be a good starting PG, never mind a star. Someone like Ja Morant is so far ahead of him and is younger. I think it's a mistake to assume he's the answer to our lack of star power.

This, unfortunately. Maybe the thing that works in our favor here is that we get him on a  decent contract once his rookie deal is up and he starts to come in to his own. Kind of feel like the same thing could happen with Isaac because of his injury history. Then we still are able to maintain talent (assuming they can stay healthy and keep improving) and still have a Max FA spot available as our vets and expire. Kind of similar to the early GS path and how they wound up being able to have all those stars because they got Steph on the discount early because of his ankle. I know it’s a lot of hypothetical but it’s the only real way I can get excited about the future right now. I’d love to draft somebody this year with our first that’s only known as a shooter. We haven’t done that in forever and it’s killing us!

[All Eyes On Me 1,194]

1 hour ago, Luke_FfS said:

I agree that tank again is not the solution.

We probably overvalue our young talent too, but it's the team that doesn't work as a whole.

I think that it's not a matter or blowing it out and bottom out, but just to be proactive. We've discussed a lot of teams that are very good again without even picking a top 5 player. And if you want to get a good example of being proactive, just look at Dallas:

- they have two great players and also cap space in the near future if I remember correctly.

- they've worked their way into both of those players, and not waited for luck... Porzingis trade was risky, and still depends on his health. Luka looks like an MVP now, but before the draft, there were a lot of questions about him even if everyone forgets it now (adapting, physicality, speed, etc) and they traded to get him while others passed on him.

- their coach is not young by any means, but it's a great one that is able to change his style and adapt to the players he has, not the other way. He maximizes their qualities (and their trade value too). He's not afraid of taking risky decisions.

- How many undrafted or little know players are into their rotation now? Or were traded as value to get other players? All of them having a bigger role than their salaries. Roles are clear and who plays hard will find his space. They maximize their talent and their trade value.

 

We can say the same of our team? How many boxes we check? How many players underperforming their salary? How many not used correctly?

Tank is not the solution, but accept mediocrity like the FO has done in all their decisions isn't either. Making moves obviously has a big % of risk too, but proactive means that you're at least trying and eventually accepting the consequences. And unfortunately, I don't envision any big change in the future, given the info we have now.

 

I agree with everything you said except for the Luka part. It still baffles me that he didn’t go first overall. Suns and Kings will be kicking themselves forever. It’s the modern day equivalent of the 84 draft

[CTMagicUK 1,475]

4 minutes ago, All Eyes On Me said:

This, unfortunately. Maybe the thing that works in our favor here is that we get him on a  decent contract once his rookie deal is up and he starts to come in to his own. Kind of feel like the same thing could happen with Isaac because of his injury history. Then we still are able to maintain talent (assuming they can stay healthy and keep improving) and still have a Max FA spot available as our vets and expire. Kind of similar to the early GS path and how they wound up being able to have all those stars because they got Steph on the discount early because of his ankle. I know it’s a lot of hypothetical but it’s the only real way I can get excited about the future right now. I’d love to draft somebody this year with our first that’s only known as a shooter. We haven’t done that in forever and it’s killing us!

Yea I'm pretty happy with the idea that Fultz and Isaac get deals that might wind up being discounts for us in the later years. What those look like I'm not sure though.

Do we feel comfortable paying Fultz 15+ million a season? I guess that depends a lot on how he plays next season? Do we let him go into RFA? Try and extend him this off-season to a low deal? I have no idea. Like is Delon Wright the type of deal he should get or is that lowballing him? 

And with Isaac, if he's healthy he's probably getting circa 20 million. Now, would he accept a deal in the 14-18 million range? Do we wait and evaluate his health? Do we let him test RFA? Or just try and lock him up now? 

 

[All Eyes On Me 1,194]

24 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

Yea I'm pretty happy with the idea that Fultz and Isaac get deals that might wind up being discounts for us in the later years. What those look like I'm not sure though.

Do we feel comfortable paying Fultz 15+ million a season? I guess that depends a lot on how he plays next season? Do we let him go into RFA? Try and extend him this off-season to a low deal? I have no idea. Like is Delon Wright the type of deal he should get or is that lowballing him? 

And with Isaac, if he's healthy he's probably getting circa 20 million. Now, would he accept a deal in the 14-18 million range? Do we wait and evaluate his health? Do we let him test RFA? Or just try and lock him up now? 

 

Yeah, and add to all the questions what the Cap will look like now and be projected to look like in the future after Covid, if it ever freakin ends... a lot more questions than answers right now. For JI, if he misses all of next season, which I bet he would, I’d be extremely hesitant to pay him $14 mill coming off an ACL and a rookie contract that he only managed to be healthy for half of. Glad I’m not making these decisions!

[Luke_FfS 247]

30 minutes ago, All Eyes On Me said:

I agree with everything you said except for the Luka part. It still baffles me that he didn’t go first overall. Suns and Kings will be kicking themselves forever. It’s the modern day equivalent of the 84 draft

It wasn't my concern actually, I lived in Spain and I've seen Luka playing for years before joining NBA. He was incredible at 16 already...

But there were reasons if a couple of teams directly passed on him and others weren't more agressive on trading up on draft night. Those concerns seems stupid in hindsight, but at the time were real. Just check at the pre-draft stories and analysis and you'll surely find all of them.

[jjgator 164]

Gordon out for game 4. I hate Kyle Lowry.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

The whole 'Luka should have been the #1 pick' thing is weird to me. A lot of guys on here didn't want Luka and were happy when the Mavericks blew that up. A couple people wanted Trey Young - and he is much better than most of us thought he could be. Deandre Ayton looks to be a very good player, probably a future All-Star. There was basically no chance he wouldn't be that guy. Without the benefit of hindsight, Ayton was a good pick, and he is working out so far. It's kinda like saying Denver and Toronto were stupid for drafting Carmello and Bosh over Wade, because Wade was an All-time great and those other two were just perennial All-Stars. It's very much like '84, as someone said; but nobody thinks Houston regrets drafting Hakeem. Houston made the right call, and they got an All-time great Center out of it. They just didn't get the GOAT. But nobody thought Michael would be the GOAT. The Blazers are the ones who screwed up. Bowie was a solid player before he got hurt, but Jordan clearly should have been the #2 pick. Jordan and Clyde could totally have been just as good as Jordan and Pippen, and probably faster. Phoenix won't be kicking themselves for not drafting Luka. At least, they shouldn't be. They picked a good player. The Kings, like the Blazers, should be kicking themselves forever, though. But no one was thinking Luka at #1 on draft night. People thought maybe Ayton wasn't the guy, I don't remember anyone suggesting Luka at #1.

[hootie249 293]

21 hours ago, fan for too long 2 said:

Fultz has disappointed me the most since the break. He looks like he has not worked on his body or game. In fact regressed. He looks slow and bad technique on defense and ball handling. Yesterday’s game he also looked uninterested on the bench. When we made a 15-3 run,  guys were up cheering and he looked like he was falling asleep.

I don’t think he is our future guys. 

   Yeah without getting technical neither Fultz nor Bamba look like they have that basketball drive or passion. That's why it i think  it would be logical to do a small reset or rebuild. Did you watch any of the Mavs or Clippers games? Watch Luka, this a kid who looked like he probably dribbled a basketball 6 hours a day since he was 3 years old.

The guy has fun out there and you can tell he loves to play the game. I think some players get pushed into the game because they were born with a certain amount of size or skill. And to be more specific i think more then a few of our guys fall into that category. 

[TrueMagicFan07 660]

1 hour ago, hootie249 said:

   Yeah without getting technical neither Fultz nor Bamba look like they have that basketball drive or passion. That's why it i think  it would be logical to do a small reset or rebuild. Did you watch any of the Mavs or Clippers games? Watch Luka, this a kid who looked like he probably dribbled a basketball 6 hours a day since he was 3 years old.

The guy has fun out there and you can tell he loves to play the game. I think some players get pushed into the game because they were born with a certain amount of size or skill. And to be more specific i think more then a few of our guys fall into that category. 

That is true. But I've also been of the opinion that sometimes, sometimes, the level of play in high school or college is different from the pros.

An athlete might shine at a school that is in a division where the competition at schools they play against is not that great. It makes an athlete look like all world. And when they come to the pros, it's a whole different ballgame.

The majority of the athletes that the highly touted one competed against in high school or college do not make it to the pros and end up working 9-5 jobs.

[Luke_FfS 247]

48 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said:

The whole 'Luka should have been the #1 pick' thing is weird to me. A lot of guys on here didn't want Luka and were happy when the Mavericks blew that up. A couple people wanted Trey Young...I don't remember anyone suggesting Luka at #1.

Exactly. In hindsight everything is very simple, and I'm sure a lot of people that wasn't so high on Doncic, now is saying that they were and that he was clearly the only N1 option. A lot of time ago there was a very serious debate between DH and Okafor... and we can find a million more examples of that kind.

Luka was a generational talent in Europe, that's a fact. In his last year in Euroleague (biggest tournament here) there were a few moments late in the close games in which his decision making was doubtful, at least. All the other concerns (speed, phisicality, adapting) were also possibly real. I was high on him, but nobody could have been envisioned what he has become in such a short time. Who says that, is lying. Kudos to Dallas for the proactive thing.

He still have a lot of time to improve (high rate TO, low % on 3's and FT) and that is scaring somehow. He also need to focus more on the defensive end, but that's quite normal at such a young age and with the role he has on offense.