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Soul Bro

2020 Official Off-Season Thread

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3 hours ago, Soul Bro said:

Honestly, I’m not sure they’ve found their perfect center solution. They nearly lost to Toronto and are struggling against Miami. And it’s really uncertain how they’d fair against Davis or Jokic if they did make the Finals. 

Vooch is a really solid player and would give Boston or another playoff team a lot of versatility. I actually think we keep him because our offense is so bad and Bamba has looked so inconsistent, but I also wouldn’t mind trading him for a legit wing or prospect.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ainge found a way to get this guy.

Quote

At the trade deadline, the Rockets and Celtics, two championship-contending teams, made multiple offers to Detroit for Wood, per a source."

https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/09/17/houston-rockets-can-trade-pistons-forward-christian-wood/

 

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1 hour ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

They almost traded Dragic away.

Sports are so chaotic

   This is a good point and makes me think about what i said earlier, so kudos for bringing it up. As far as Vucevic, yeah he is great trade value but can management survive trading him? It would have to signal at least a small rebuild. Which i could handle but our management could get fired and regular fans wouldn't understand.

I wanted Vooch gone years ago, but now it just doesn't make sense. His contract shrinks every year and he is one of the longest tenured  Magicians ever. The fact he became the unquestioned best player on our team kinda helps. So i say no go, it's pretty obvious we are gonna run it back anyway. 

I love playing with trade machines and i can't for the life of me find  a good trade for Vucevic. 

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5 hours ago, MagicMoses said:

I think Vuc is bigger than Theis and more mobile and better defensively than Kanter imo (also stretches the floor better) and there was rumoured interest from them before

 

4 hours ago, Soul Bro said:

Honestly, I’m not sure they’ve found their perfect center solution. They nearly lost to Toronto and are struggling against Miami. And it’s really uncertain how they’d fair against Davis or Jokic if they did make the Finals. 

Vooch is a really solid player and would give Boston or another playoff team a lot of versatility. I actually think we keep him because our offense is so bad and Bamba has looked so inconsistent, but I also wouldn’t mind trading him for a legit wing or prospect.

First of all, Boston came from a terrible season in which they were considered "dead" by a lot of people, and now they're playing the confernce finals. Second, they're playing without one of their most experienced player and former all star, that was returning to a great level just before that new injury.

How would Vuc play against Davis or Jokic, considering he was eliminated from the series by Gasol one year ago, and is usually killed but less talented players than Jokic on defense?

That said, my point was that the way they're constructed, they don't need Vuc at all (there're always rumours, but with all the assets they had, if they really wanted to deal for him in the past he was already wearing green) They don't need him because he doesn't fit their style at all (there's no sense for them to slow down the game feeding him in the post) they already have enough firepower with their starters+Hayward and doesn't need a center that requires a lot of shots and the ball in his hands. It's true that he's more an outside threat, but they don't really have that kind of need, and both him and Theis shoot 33% this season. They need a solid player that defend well, play with great effort, set great screens and doesn't require a lot of touches in offense (Theis) and if they need an offensive spark, they've Kanter for cheap and for short stretches. Look at how Tatum and Brown has improved again after a year in which those touches were in Irving hands... why they should have them unhappy and uneffective again? Salary wise, same history. They've invested a lot of money in other roles, and both Kanter and Theis at 5m are great value for the price. Vuc is surely better than both, but he makes 5 times more money. Is he 5 times better than them? Absolutely not. And I would argue that Theis is better than him for what they need, even putting the salary aside.

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15 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

I agree with the general sentiment of a lot of this post but just a couple of things:

Buddy Hield is about 100 days younger than Evan Fournier. He's not young, he entered the league at 24.

Bamba is never going to be anything like Jokic. And nobody else in the league is anything like Jokic really. Honestly Vuc is one of the closest guys out there in terms of a 7 footer who can shoot, post up and pass. (Though he's not nearly as good a passer on the move and he can't handle nearly as well). But I think it's a mistake to look at Jokic and think 'all Centers need to be like that' teams win in so many different ways and trying to copy Jokic who is a legit 1 of 1 player is only going to end badly. 

Aminu isn't really injury prone. This is the worst injury he's ever had. Before this season he averaged like 74 games a season. I get why you'd want him gone but I don't think 18 games is a long enough time to evaluate him. There's every chance he'll be a solid player next year and an asset moving forward. 

Those are fair points. I honestly didn't know Buddy was that young. I guess I assumed he came in the league a year or two before Fox. But I forgot about his time in New Orleans. 

I just don't think a bench of "Ross, Bamba, Iwundu, Aminu, MCW, Okeke" pushes us into the top 5 In the East and I'm just not sure how the bench is improved unless you have a proven star. 

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Just saw this on TradeNba.com (Link) totally off of the rumor that Giannis is unfollowing teammates on social media. 

Warriors Get: Giannis

Bucks Get: Evan Fournier, Aaron Gordon, Andrew Wiggins, Warriors 2020 #2, Magic #2020 1st

Magic Get: Khris Middleton, Bucks 2020 1st from Indiana, and sign DeMar DeRozan in Free Agency to a 2 year 17.9M contract. 

 

I mean, I get it....it's a fantasy trade. However, I don't hate the idea?  

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5 hours ago, TrueBlueDrew said:

Just saw this on TradeNba.com (Link) totally off of the rumor that Giannis is unfollowing teammates on social media. 

Warriors Get: Giannis

Bucks Get: Evan Fournier, Aaron Gordon, Andrew Wiggins, Warriors 2020 #2, Magic #2020 1st

Magic Get: Khris Middleton, Bucks 2020 1st from Indiana, and sign DeMar DeRozan in Free Agency to a 2 year 17.9M contract. 

 

I mean, I get it....it's a fantasy trade. However, I don't hate the idea?  

The Warriors get Giannis and only have to give up Wiggins and the #2 pick? Not sure I'd be letting that happen if I was the Bucks. I'd want the unprotected MIN pick and Eric Paschall as well at the very least. 

Not sure how to think about this hypothetical Middleton/Derozan(who has a player option he'll pick up so won't be available as a free agent) tandem. In theory our starting 5 would be pretty good but I'm not sure about the fit of Fultz and Derozan. 

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 You know what i would love? i wanna run it back, one more time. I would love to somehow get a guard who loves to drive to the basket. Any guard, draft, trade, whatever.

I have no idea how to get that guy, but i'm not getting paid to do it. Magic management, show your worth.I just want to see how our current roster plays with a wing who has handles enough to break down a defense.He can have flaws,maybe undersized, maybe a questionable outside shot. I just want to see our guys play with someone who constantly attacks the paint.

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On 9/18/2020 at 10:50 AM, Soul Bro said:

First, our team needs to establish a plan and culture and then move forward. Then our team needs to be willing to trade or let some of our high usage vets go in order to find the Nunns, VanVleets, Richardsons and Herros of the world. To me that would mean saying goodbye to people like DJ, Fournier, etc.

The hard part in Orlando is we don’t have an alpha dog in the locker room who knows what it takes to win. To set the culture. It may be small but there’s a reason Haslem is still on the bench. A lot of work to do in Orlando to take that next step.

Our biggest issue has been player development and injuries. With the injury to JI, we have 0 to show for our draft picks from the new regime. we have swung and missed too much. Even when adding players that would cause a log jam, because people thought they were the best talent. I am still waiting to see the value of players drafted. It means a lot that you only have wes to show for our playoff run. We just have too do much better. sometimes player fit makes a big difference for players producing and developing. If you draft like players because another player has a better ceiling, it may mean you have to trade so you give the higher ceiling player time to play. 

We have started to show a culture of winning with players that can defend multiple positions, low turnovers, limiting second chances, player length, and unselfish offense. It is not really a culture thing, we just are lacking on talent. We have wasted too many picks and now it has caught up to us. At this moment, vuch should be easy traded, because we added a 6th pick center that had a higher ceiling (2 years ago), but because we swung and missed, it is hard to make a move, because Mo Bomba is not showing promise.  I personally see an issue with our draft choices. Most of the players producing, were inherited. I need to see what okeke does and what we add this year, because was I am seeing now is a bad trend so far. (I do love JI but lord God, he can not stay healthy.)

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I wonder if we could do Birch for Danuel House. House's value tanked with the crap he pulled in the bubble, he's almost certainly out in Houston but he's still a decent NBA wing on a cheap deal. Rockets might like Birch as a mobile, rim running, big. Of course do we want a guy on our roster who puts cheating on his wife over the safety of his teammates... Its a low risk move though so might be worth it if he's remorseful etc. 

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On 9/19/2020 at 12:45 PM, hootie249 said:

 You know what i would love? i wanna run it back, one more time. I would love to somehow get a guard who loves to drive to the basket. Any guard, draft, trade, whatever.

I have no idea how to get that guy, but i'm not getting paid to do it. Magic management, show your worth.I just want to see how our current roster plays with a wing who has handles enough to break down a defense.He can have flaws,maybe undersized, maybe a questionable outside shot. I just want to see our guys play with someone who constantly attacks the paint.

I think we’ve been there, done that.  If you don’t have better shooting than we do it doesn’t work because the defense sags off the weak shooters and clogs the paint.  Then you have guys trying to attack anyway, 1v2 or 1v3, and as often as not you get a bad shot or a turnover. 

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1 hour ago, JJZFL said:

I think we’ve been there, done that.  If you don’t have better shooting than we do it doesn’t work because the defense sags off the weak shooters and clogs the paint.  Then you have guys trying to attack anyway, 1v2 or 1v3, and as often as not you get a bad shot or a turnover. 

  We haven't had someone attack the pain well in years. First of all Nelson never did it for real it was just for show. everyone else was setting up 3's, we actually were at the forefront of that ****. Since then we had Oladipo, and Elfrid, two guards who could not finish or draw a foul. Outside of that everyone else has been mediocre. Evan looked like he could for a bit, ditto Gordon, Ross can only finish if he is wide open and hates contact. DJ is too small. It has literally been our defining trait, nobody can handle inside except Vucevic, everybody else has to have a wide open lane. 

  Fultz was a breath of fresh air because when he was first was healthy he showed he could finish through contact, and then hardly ever does. I want to see that first step he only ever teases us with and drawing fouls...seriously it's all he has until some shot guru fixes that horrible jumper 3 years after he leaves the  Magic.

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