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2020 Official Off-Season Thread

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9 hours ago, hootie249 said:

  It's all relative, just a few seasons ago, the Heat had at least 2 or 3 bad contracts. They had just lost two old Hall of Famers, one they had to convince to retire, one that wouldn't retire. It took Riley about 2 and a half seasons to completely turn over the roster. Other teams that almost completely turned over the roster in the last 3 years:

Pacers,Knicks,Thunder,Rockets,Dallas,Clippers,Memphis,New Orleans,Lakers and to a lesser extent, Suns,Jazz,Kings and Minnesota.

I know people are going to say half those teams had a star to trade, or got lucky with a draft pick or something like that. I know some of you will say some of those teams were not succesful. Trust me, all of these teams were either forced to change or were proactive about it. Time to stop just hoping to get lucky. Serious how long has AG,Evan and Vucevic played here and in all those years where are the undrafted or second round players every other team comes up with to even challenge the starters for minutes.We can't even get the Alec Burkes of the world, or get lucky with a landry Shamet. We don't need world beaters but like someone else said i'm tired of projects.

Alec Burks and Landry Shamet were both first round picks. And Alec Burks made the vet minimum this season. If we wanted him we probably could have got him. And we could probably still get him this summer if we wanted him (to be fair a cheap guard who can get his own shot isn't a terrible idea) but I really don't see how there's anything to complain about for not signing him? He wouldn't move the needle. 

We have Khem Birch who we signed as a UFA. We have Wes Iwundu who we picked in the second round. We picked up Gary Clarke off waivers. Every year like 60 guys go undrafted and only a few of them make the league and play a role. Likewise only a handful of 2nd rounders every year ever become impactful players. The odds are always stacked against you. And considering Weltman and Hammond have selected a grand total of 3 2nd round guys so far, one of them being a marginally successful pick in Iwundu, I can't see how there's much to complain about there given the tiny sample. 

Also that's really not what happened with Wade and Bosh in Miami. Wade left as a free agent to Chicago and Bosh retired due to heart issues. They didn't convince anyone to retire. In fact they brought Wade back for a farewell tour.

 

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Buy (very) low candidate for me is a name that is probably unknown to the most: Vincent Poirier of the C's, for some reason that I obviouly don't know hasn't found space on their rotation, but IMO it's a better (and more exciting) version of Birch.

Don't obviously expect him to be a game changer, he almost only dunk, has limited post moves, but it's a great worker, rim-runner, good defense and shoot-blocking, he does all the small things that are useful to the team (he sets a ton of great screens, for example). The kind of center that cost only a little part of your cap and it's the right fit in the modern NBA.

(if you want to see a few highlights ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lYP1ccwEzQ)

Obviously to be considerd only if we trade Vuc, as we had already too much centers. Also, he's french, so at the same time we can also trade Fournier as we would cover our French quote! :P

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8 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

Alec Burks and Landry Shamet were both first round picks. And Alec Burks made the vet minimum this season. If we wanted him we probably could have got him. And we could probably still get him this summer if we wanted him (to be fair a cheap guard who can get his own shot isn't a terrible idea) but I really don't see how there's anything to complain about for not signing him? He wouldn't move the needle. 

We have Khem Birch who we signed as a UFA. We have Wes Iwundu who we picked in the second round. We picked up Gary Clarke off waivers. Every year like 60 guys go undrafted and only a few of them make the league and play a role. Likewise only a handful of 2nd rounders every year ever become impactful players. The odds are always stacked against you. And considering Weltman and Hammond have selected a grand total of 3 2nd round guys so far, one of them being a marginally successful pick in Iwundu, I can't see how there's much to complain about there given the tiny sample. 

Also that's really not what happened with Wade and Bosh in Miami. Wade left as a free agent to Chicago and Bosh retired due to heart issues. They didn't convince anyone to retire. In fact they brought Wade back for a farewell tour.

 

   I'm purposely avoiding talking about the Bradley Beals of the world because everyone focuses on the next good player who might switch teams. You, don't have to get the free agent all-star or the second pick in the draft. You can make a move where you get a two for one pick or bring in a young player who maybe maybe was overlooked on another team. You keep talking about how rare it is to find these  guys or get a "needle mover". I think  your being disingenuous. I'm saying we are not even busting out the thimble and thread, not even trying. Holding onto guys who are never going to be anything.It's bad enough when the starters are mediocre but i think our bench has not had enough movement the last 8 years. What i'm trying to tell you is our bench needed to have seen more fresh faces, no matter where they came from. 

   And yes, when we had contract messes, our gm's almost always handled it in the worst way. The whole Biyombo/Mozgov situation, no imagination just a huge hit for a contract people knew was bad the minute it was signed. Meanwhile In a way both the Lakers and the Nets got something out of trading that same contract. I can do this all day going back to Arenas/Lewis trade. I think the only trade we actually won going all the way back to Steve Francis was the Dwight trade, which we did win. And then proceeded to either sit on or mismanage every asset we got form that trade!

I know this is all beating a dead horse, but i'm sorry next stupid thing we do i think i'm out. I'm guessing the next thing is giving Fultz a 20 million dollar a year extension before we even see him play next year. 

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39 minutes ago, hootie249 said:

   I'm purposely avoiding talking about the Bradley Beals of the world because everyone focuses on the next good player who might switch teams. You, don't have to get the free agent all-star or the second pick in the draft. You can make a move where you get a two for one pick or bring in a young player who maybe maybe was overlooked on another team. You keep talking about how rare it is to find these  guys or get a "needle mover". I think  your being disingenuous. I'm saying we are not even busting out the thimble and thread, not even trying. Holding onto guys who are never going to be anything.It's bad enough when the starters are mediocre but i think our bench has not had enough movement the last 8 years. What i'm trying to tell you is our bench needed to have seen more fresh faces, no matter where they came from. 

   And yes, when we had contract messes, our gm's almost always handled it in the worst way. The whole Biyombo/Mozgov situation, no imagination just a huge hit for a contract people knew was bad the minute it was signed. Meanwhile In a way both the Lakers and the Nets got something out of trading that same contract. I can do this all day going back to Arenas/Lewis trade. I think the only trade we actually won going all the way back to Steve Francis was the Dwight trade, which we did win. And then proceeded to either sit on or mismanage every asset we got form that trade!

I know this is all beating a dead horse, but i'm sorry next stupid thing we do i think i'm out. I'm guessing the next thing is giving Fultz a 20 million dollar a year extension before we even see him play next year. 

But... Without looking I'd guess not a single bench player from 8 years ago is here now? So I guess I don't see your point. The season Weltman and Hammond took over we had these players:

Jonathan Simmons

Elfrid Payton

Mario Hezonja

Shelvin Mack

Bismack Biyombo

Mareese Speights

Aaron Afflalo

Plus a smattering of guys we tested out on minimum deals that only played a handful of games.

Last year we had:

Jarrell Martin

Jerian Grant

And another 3 or 4 guys on minimum contracts that played a handful of games (one of whom was MCW who has proven to be a successful reclamation project). Btw both Martin and Grant are examples of guys we acquired who were young and had been overlooked on other teams. 

Now admittedly that's a lot less of turnover between last year and this year but I think that's more of a product of getting caught up in running it back with a year of experience and development from Isaac plus adding in Fultz than it was a long term strategy. I fully expect roster churn this summer. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Luke_FfS said:

Buy (very) low candidate for me is a name that is probably unknown to the most: Vincent Poirier of the C's, for some reason that I obviouly don't know hasn't found space on their rotation, but IMO it's a better (and more exciting) version of Birch.

Don't obviously expect him to be a game changer, he almost only dunk, has limited post moves, but it's a great worker, rim-runner, good defense and shoot-blocking, he does all the small things that are useful to the team (he sets a ton of great screens, for example). The kind of center that cost only a little part of your cap and it's the right fit in the modern NBA.

(if you want to see a few highlights ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lYP1ccwEzQ)

Obviously to be considerd only if we trade Vuc, as we had already too much centers. Also, he's french, so at the same time we can also trade Fournier as we would cover our French quote! :P

He reminds me a lot of Daniel Theis with the same style of play. We could definitely use that coming off the bench and wouldn’t mind that at all. 

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Where the hell did Head Coach Steve Nash to the Nets come from?! Didn't even hear a whisper of a rumour about this. Has he ever even been an assistant?

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30 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

Where the hell did Head Coach Steve Nash to the Nets come from?! Didn't even hear a whisper of a rumour about this. Has he ever even been an assistant?

Crazy, right? Wow. Next season is going to be quite exciting.

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12 minutes ago, Soul Bro said:

Crazy, right? Wow. Next season is going to be quite exciting.

I'm expecting fireworks on offense for that team now. Of course nobody actually has any idea what Steve Nash is like as a coach so that's exciting in itself.

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5 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

Where the hell did Head Coach Steve Nash to the Nets come from?! Didn't even hear a whisper of a rumour about this. Has he ever even been an assistant?

A lot of players who played with and against Steve Nash always said it was like playing with/against a coach right on the floor, and said he always knew not just who was where, but who was supposed to be where for both teams. Part of what made him great was being able to see the holes and gaps created by guys being out of position. Not sure if that is something you can teach, but it should be an interesting thing to see him try.

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On 9/2/2020 at 7:21 PM, TrueMagicFanSince1987 said:

He reminds me a lot of Daniel Theis with the same style of play. We could definitely use that coming off the bench and wouldn’t mind that at all. 

Theis has a better outside shoot, and more experience in USA, so it's probably starting for those reasons. It's a little strange that Poirier didn't find space at all in all season, as Stevens is usually a good evaluator. At least he has one year of experience abroad now, and until he was in Europe, he was surely a way better player than Khem.

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Austin Rivers might be an interesting guy to target in free agency (presuming he declines his player option). Scoring guards have had quite a lot of success in Clifford's system and Austin could give us a nice lift off the bench as a shooter, scorer and ball handler, similar to Jeremy Lin with the Hornets under Clifford. Don't think he's going to command big money and he might think the extra opportunity, combined with being back where he played HS ball, is worth coming here over a contender. 

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