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2020 Official Off-Season Thread

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20 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

Malik Beasley sign and trade maybe? Although that might cost us some serious salary and assets. 

Maybe try and buy low on a guy who's underwhelmed on his rookie deal so far or will struggle to get minutes on the team he's on like Justin Jackson, Anfernee Simons, Josh Hart, Georges Niang. 

Or try and see if any guy coming off his rookie deal who underwhelmed could be had on the cheap: Denzel Valentine or Timothe Luwawau-Cabarrot come to mind.

Just small moves that cost very little and might pay off by getting us a real quality roleplayer.

 

I think the buy low, or someone coming off their rookie deal as a role-player is the way to go. I think we did well with our pick-ups of James Ennis III and Gary Clark, so maybe this is the path to take, especially with the salary-cap restraints that will be caused by the coronavirus restraints on this season (and next?). I expect that both Fournier and Ennis will opt in, for that very reason. There just isn't going to be much money out there this off-season. I just don't see us being a big spender this summer, I doubt we will even use the full, mid-level exception. 

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1 hour ago, Jason Funderburker said:

I think it is crazy you guys still want to move Vuc. To me this series has shown that he actually is a guy you can compete with

Vuc is not a guy you can compete with as your #1 option.  We have seen in years past when vuc does not get his shots and not the #1 option his effectiveness greatly diminishes.

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1 hour ago, Jason Funderburker said:

I think it is crazy you guys still want to move Vuc. To me this series has shown that he actually is a guy you can compete with

If Vucevic is moved, Bamba will get more minutes, if not, Bamba will never play so pick your poison 

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9 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said:

I think the buy low, or someone coming off their rookie deal as a role-player is the way to go. I think we did well with our pick-ups of James Ennis III and Gary Clark, so maybe this is the path to take, especially with the salary-cap restraints that will be caused by the coronavirus restraints on this season (and next?). I expect that both Fournier and Ennis will opt in, for that very reason. There just isn't going to be much money out there this off-season. I just don't see us being a big spender this summer, I doubt we will even use the full, mid-level exception. 

Sorry, I beg to differ. Honestly, I think we have passed that time of doing small adjustments and betting on cheap and supposedly "un-tapped" players. I agree the cap evolution in the next season(s) brings some concerns but I think it is time to really shake up things and move on from the way this roster is made. And don't get me wrong, I do appreciate having Ennis and Clark and am enjoying their performances, but they are good role players, no more than that and so, they will not make the needle move...

Of course, it is easy to speak, and even though I have this impression, I cannot choose what would be in my opinion the best way forward. Probably, we should capitalise on the great numbers that Vuc is making against the Bucks. But even if we go for it, what would we like in return: top draft pick(s)? or an emerging star? and who?

I could see GSW starting to "salive" with Vucs performances as I think what he is showing these days would be a tremendous fit with Draymond in their front court and with the splash-brothers in the perimeter. If so, would we "swallow" Wiggins contract (and risk) for their 2020 #2 pick and hopefully their 2021 or 2022 1st round pick? And if so, if we assume that Edwards is a lock at #1, who would we pick with their #2: Wiseman (and completely discard Bamba) or Ball (and make Fultz "run for the money")?

If we choose an emerging/raising star, my dream (like Mauro) would be a sign and trade for Ingram. I do see potential interest from the NOP to have Vuc stretching the floor for Zion's runs to the basket. Still, I agree it is a long shot, but hey... we'll never know if we don't try... And appart from him, Jaylen Brown would also be a "dream", but I don't see BOS trading now, especially not this offseason...

So once again, I know what I would not do, but I admit, it is not easy to find the clear way forward...

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32 minutes ago, JayMac said:

Sorry, I beg to differ. Honestly, I think we have passed that time of doing small adjustments and betting on cheap and supposedly "un-tapped" players. I agree the cap evolution in the next season(s) brings some concerns but I think it is time to really shake up things and move on from the way this roster is made. And don't get me wrong, I do appreciate having Ennis and Clark and am enjoying their performances, but they are good role players, no more than that and so, they will not make the needle move...

Of course, it is easy to speak, and even though I have this impression, I cannot choose what would be in my opinion the best way forward. Probably, we should capitalise on the great numbers that Vuc is making against the Bucks. But even if we go for it, what would we like in return: top draft pick(s)? or an emerging star? and who?

I could see GSW starting to "salive" with Vucs performances as I think what he is showing these days would be a tremendous fit with Draymond in their front court and with the splash-brothers in the perimeter. If so, would we "swallow" Wiggins contract (and risk) for their 2020 #2 pick and hopefully their 2021 or 2022 1st round pick? And if so, if we assume that Edwards is a lock at #1, who would we pick with their #2: Wiseman (and completely discard Bamba) or Ball (and make Fultz "run for the money")?

If we choose an emerging/raising star, my dream (like Mauro) would be a sign and trade for Ingram. I do see potential interest from the NOP to have Vuc stretching the floor for Zion's runs to the basket. Still, I agree it is a long shot, but hey... we'll never know if we don't try... And appart from him, Jaylen Brown would also be a "dream", but I don't see BOS trading now, especially not this offseason...

So once again, I know what I would not do, but I admit, it is not easy to find the clear way forward...

I like these ideas. 

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   You can never say never in this league, so those trades aren't impossible, but close to it. Brown and Ingram have already "hit" so those teams are not trading them unless it's for a star. Brown already has a contract and Ingram is about to get his, and they have the cap space. No problem with the post, it's a nice dream.

We have to target guys about to breakthrough or players that are better fits for this team. Trust me i love wondering what this team would look like with a point guard like Jamal Murray or a shooting guard like Mitchell, but it's not happening. Same thing with the Jaylen Browns or Ingrams of the world, they haven't reach the same level but they are only getting traded for guys that are better then them that maybe demand a trade. 

I think we need to target bad teams like the Kings or teams who just had a disappointing postseason, like the Nuggets. Try to get some better fits or more offense.

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If you think New Orleans are trading Brandon Ingram for Vuc I've got a bridge to sell you. 

I also doubt Golden State would value Vuc over Wiggins since they have zero wings and seem to prefer rim running, rim protector bigs, but in a world where they do and they do want to trade for him and we have to take on Wiggins' dreadful contract I'd want: Eric Paschall, #2, 2021 MIN pick, their own unprotected 2022 pick and a couple of second rounders. Because honestly if we trade Vuc we're probably a bottom 5 team. Might as well lean into it with a bunch of assets.

Also Fred VanVleet is about to get dramatically over paid and I want no part of it. His value as a starting PG when he won't be playing next to another elite full time PG in Kyle Lowry is virtually none to me. He's not a good pick and roll player at 0.84 PPP that's in the 50th percentile among all players (of eligible Magic players only MCW and AG are worse pick and roll ball handlers, DJ Augustin, Terrence Ross,  Wes Iwundu and Evan Fournier all have better PPP as a pick and roll ball handler and Fultz is comparable at 0.85). Of his almost 7 3PA a game 6 of them are classified as Open or Wide Open, the benefits of playing with another all star guard, an all star forward and one of the best passing big men in the game in Gasol. He also only shoots 31% on pull-ups. DJ Augustin is hitting 38% on pull-ups this season. And he shoots 55% at the rim, DJ Augustin shoots 57% at the rim.

Someone is going to pay Fred VanVleet 20 million a season. I suspect that is going to be a mistake. Apart from being an obvious defensive upgrade his numbers are comparable to DJ Augustin who'll probably make a quarter of what VanVleet makes next season. 

Caris Levert, I can see the appeal because of his self creation but he's older and less experienced than AG (who we'd probably have to give up to get him) and averages 50 games a season. He also needs the ball in his hands to be effective which could be a problem depending on if you believe in Fultz or not.  Obviously if we could somehow get him with Fournier I'd do it but otherwise I think I pass.

Hield is overrated. There's a reason he got benched in Sacramento. He's also really old for his experience level. He'll be 28 years old in the first year of his 4 year $94 million contract next season. I wouldn't like to give up a lot of assets for him. Trading Vuc for him almost certainly means we're losing a lot of games next season. Which if you want to do, that's fine, but if we're tanking I'd rather have picks and young players.

CJ McCollum I can't see getting traded. People float his name every off-season and nothing ever happens. If they did trade him I'd imagine they'd want another real star back.

Can't imagine Brooklyn entertaining a sign and trade for Joe Harris since he's exactly the type of player they'll need next season to play with Kyrie and KD. And how much would you be willing to pay and give up for just a pure shooter who's value is limited basically everywhere else? Fournier I guess? Would Brooklyn do that considering Fournier is an expiring? 

I did not intend for this post to be as overwhelming negative as what it's come out as but I think we need to be realistic about our options here. It's alright wanting a big shake up, but a shake up for the sake of a shake up isn't a smart or sound decision. 

Also I'm just not a huge fan of discussing guys like Ingram and Jaylen Brown who we've got probably zero chance of acquiring since discussing it perpetuates the idea it's possible which leads to some fans taking exhausting stances like "not trading for Ingram when we had the chance was unforgivable".

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Well said CTMagicUK

If you only target players that are already very good, you'll have to pay a lot for them (for both contract and assets). Being smart and proactive means find those kind of players before they're almost at a star level and almost untradable. The Fultz move was in this line, it was a risky one but the price was really low, so he was a no-brainer for us somehow.

Than you use all your assets for the right star when the opportunity arise, if you can. Problem is we've not a lot of those either.

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