2020 Official Off-Season Thread

[harley 61]

2 hours ago, s1n1st3r12 said:

We need players that can consistently put the ball in the hoop and I think we should have been using AG differently but I agree time to move on from him, Fournier and Vooch. 

100%. We need a complete teardown. Its mind boggling that people still think the opposite. Vooch's value might never get higher after this monster playoff showing. A well run FO would realise this and cash in. Trade AG and 15 for the best value you can find. If Evan opts in, tell him he will be riding the pine and won't be seeing the floor. It would cause his future value to diminish greatly, thus he may change his mind and opt out now for a longer deal elsewhere. Let DJ, Iwundu, Frazier go, Keep MCW, Clark. Ennis 50/50. He can stay for a min deal. 

[Jason Funderburker 111]

1 hour ago, harley said:

100%. We need a complete teardown. Its mind boggling that people still think the opposite. Vooch's value might never get higher after this monster playoff showing. A well run FO would realise this and cash in. Trade AG and 15 for the best value you can find. If Evan opts in, tell him he will be riding the pine and won't be seeing the floor. It would cause his future value to diminish greatly, thus he may change his mind and opt out now for a longer deal elsewhere. Let DJ, Iwundu, Frazier go, Keep MCW, Clark. Ennis 50/50. He can stay for a min deal. 

Yes, let’s go to 5 more years of tanking hoping we get a generational talent who can then overcome our long culture of losing

[CTMagicUK 1,476]

8 hours ago, Jason Funderburker said:

If you are trading AG it can’t be for ‘assets’ hoping someone comes available down the line. That is putting trust in Too many unknowns. He should only be traded in a package that brings us a star

I just spent like 10 mins on a response to this about how AGs value isn't going to get higher, how there aren't any real stars that are available etc but somehow that all got lost before I could hit post but here's the sentiment I closed with: 

Think about how Daryl Morey rebuilt the Rockets. They stayed competitive, never getting high lottery picks but he continuosly shuffled his players for future draft picks and stayed asset rich so that when a star became available he could pull the trigger.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

32 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

I just spent like 10 mins on a response to this about how AGs value isn't going to get higher, how there aren't any real stars that are available etc but somehow that all got lost before I could hit post but here's the sentiment I closed with: 

Think about how Daryl Morey rebuilt the Rockets. They stayed competitive, never getting high lottery picks but he continuosly shuffled his players for future draft picks and stayed asset rich so that when a star became available he could pull the trigger.

We need to go with this route, so it gives time for Isaac to heal up properly, and then we sign him to a team-friendly deal.

Vuc stepping up his performance could be huge and we HAVE to cash in on him

[CTMagicUK 1,476]

5 minutes ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

We need to go with this route, so it gives time for Isaac to heal up properly, and then we sign him to a team-friendly deal.

Vuc stepping up his performance could be huge and we HAVE to cash in on him

I know you're desperate to get rid of Vuc but I actually think he's the last guy out of Fournier, AG, Ross and him we'll trade. It's pretty hard to justify trading the only guy who showed up for you in the playoffs. Plus if we're really banking on Fultz developing he's going to need to play with a stretch big to mitigate his lack of jumper. I'm not saying it's a bad idea I just think it's less likely to happen.

[CTMagicUK 1,476]

In general we could take a controlled step back next season (not a full blown tank) while we wait for Isaac to get healthy. Letting Augustin walk, trading or not resigning Fournier and potentially trading AG (or Vuc if it happens) all points to us being worse. But then the year after we'll have a year of experience on Chuma and our pick #15, Bamba and Fultz will hopefully be improved, and a 2021 lottery pick to go with a returning Isaac and whatever we get in trades. That could be exciting. 

[Anfernee1 127]

8 hours ago, Jason Funderburker said:

When is the last time that happened

When Jimmy Butler demanded a trade from the Bulls, got traded to the Timberwolves then demanded a trade again 

[Luke_FfS 247]

I've just wrote something related to this discussion in the other topic (playoffs)

How many times we discussed (hoped) that Vuch was on a good streak and he would be very valuable to other teams? What happened next?

It's hard to trade your (supposed) best player, but thinking that way you'll stay the same forever (see proactive reference in the other topic)

[Jason Funderburker 111]

10 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

I just spent like 10 mins on a response to this about how AGs value isn't going to get higher, how there aren't any real stars that are available etc but somehow that all got lost before I could hit post but here's the sentiment I closed with: 

Think about how Daryl Morey rebuilt the Rockets. They stayed competitive, never getting high lottery picks but he continuosly shuffled his players for future draft picks and stayed asset rich so that when a star became available he could pull the trigger.

But isn’t that kind of purgatory while waiting for generational talent  exactly what we are bemoaning right now?

I just don’t see how the value matches up. Whatever you get in return is not going to provide equivalent production on the court to maintain where we are, and it is necessarily going to be multiple pieces which are less valuable as assets. I guess you could continue to transfer them forward hoping you luck into some increase in value, but again you are relying on so many unknowns. I think the Morey model will happen again for other teams getting stars but I don’t think it is intentionally replicable.

Plus, looking at players in the league who fit the criteria of stars wanting to leave their team, outside of Brad Beal I don’t exactly see who is really a viable option  in the next few years

[CTMagicUK 1,476]

15 minutes ago, Jason Funderburker said:

But isn’t that kind of purgatory while waiting for generational talent  exactly what we are bemoaning right now?

I just don’t see how the value matches up. Whatever you get in return is not going to provide equivalent production on the court to maintain where we are, and it is necessarily going to be multiple pieces which are less valuable as assets. I guess you could continue to transfer them forward hoping you luck into some increase in value, but again you are relying on so many unknowns. I think the Morey model will happen again for other teams getting stars but I don’t think it is intentionally replicable.

Plus, looking at players in the league who fit the criteria of stars wanting to leave their team, outside of Brad Beal I don’t exactly see who is really a viable option  in the next few years

What model is intentionally replicable? If we don't tank for a star and don't stockpile assets to trade for a star, what options have we got besides just get incredibly lucky and draft a star in the teens? If the ultimate goal is championship we need star players.

[Jason Funderburker 111]

13 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

What model is intentionally replicable? If we don't tank for a star and don't stockpile assets to trade for a star, what options have we got besides just get incredibly lucky and draft a star in the teens? If the ultimate goal is championship we need star players.

Right. I don’t think trading AG for change is the best proposition for doing that

[CTMagicUK 1,476]

1 minute ago, Jason Funderburker said:

Right. I don’t think trading AG for change is the best proposition for doing that

At no point have I suggested trading him for change. At multiple times I've said if we do trade him it better be for a really good deal. Lottery picks aren't change they're the single most valuable (non star player) asset in the NBA.