South_Aussie_Magic 90 Report post Posted December 31, 2019 1 hour ago, hootie249 said: LOL at others on this board the last year who questioned second tier players we wanted like Brogdon,Kemba, Dinwiddie or Brown. Sure they are not Superstars, but they are lightyears ahead of our players. Not even close. And they were available with the right management. The only reason I wasn't bothered about Kemba is just his age, not that I was even vocal. But looking at it right now, I think the subtraction of people who give poor and/or inconsistent effort is more important than the additions themselves at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ML6 520 Report post Posted December 31, 2019 I think I've pinpointed why the decision to play Jefferson bothers me so much. It doesn't really have to do with his minutes, because he didn't play much and didn't really "hurt" us per se. It just makes me think that the coaching staff is pressing or panicking. Something with the decision making is off. They realize the team has problems but they're reaching for answers that don't have to do with the original question. This version of the Hawks is the perfect team to go small against. Outside of Len, they have 0 true bigs that can hurt you; Damian Jones and Bruno Fernando aren't going to light you up. They commit the most turnovers in the league. They rank last in opponent points off TOs and 21st in opponent fast break points. They're 28th in defensive rating. This should be a team you pressure defensively and cause to make mistakes, which you then turn into points. Instead, we ran a Jefferson/Bamba lineup twice. There is no explanation as to why the answer to this puzzle was "let's play our slow, non-contributory 4th string center at PF". None! If the (stupid) plan was to go big for some reason... your 3 centers that regularly see minutes are all available! Why reach for Jefferson like he's some secret weapon? The more I think about it the more confused I get. It just doesn't make sense on any level, and I feel it shows that people's heads aren't on straight at the moment. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Just a regular Magic fan 38 Report post Posted December 31, 2019 No doubt this was a tough one to lose. This team becomes more baffling by the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babir_9 93 Report post Posted December 31, 2019 Clifford had to play Vuc 38-40 minutes vs Hawks, Isaac had to play more than 33...he is too stubborn and automatic with minutes allocation and rotation... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hootie249 293 Report post Posted December 31, 2019 9 hours ago, South_Aussie_Magic said: The only reason I wasn't bothered about Kemba is just his age, not that I was even vocal. But looking at it right now, I think the subtraction of people who give poor and/or inconsistent effort is more important than the additions themselves at this point. I want to be very clear about something. This is mostly about not wanting to give up certain players.In the last 8 years, hardly any of our players have warranted never give up status. Going all the way back to that Tobias trade, the idea was sound. We got a stretch 4 and a point guard, we needed both. We just chose poorly, got unlucky that the point guard was washed up. Ersan just torched us 2 nights ago, he was a good piece. Mostly we have chosen to develop players instead of moving the pieces around. What if we would have kept Tobias and Dipo but decided to trade Evan,Vuc and all those forwards we had.It's not crazy i remember at the time a lot of people on various boards thought they were all mediocre and we should keep shooting our shot until we got someone special.Other teams have done it with Philly being the most obvious, they gave up on MCW,Noel an Okafor right away. No waiting around to see if they "turn the corner". And this is not about tanking, some teams just evaluate and develop better.I just don't understand how we didn't see Elfrid was a bust soon enough. Actually we did see, our team management didn't. I don't see how we didn't get a veteran point guard in the early part of the decade. Other teams scooped up Lowry,Dragic,Thomas,Bledsoe when their original teams were not using them correctly. This isn't hindsight, i remember discussing all of those players years ago.And finally even though this post is about letting go of mediocre players, maybe we aren't using them correctly.This is my problem with Gordon right now. I don't know if he is what he shows or have we used him incorrectly.It seems everybody in the media wants us to trade the poor guy, maybe they see something. TL;DR. Why don't we make trades, develop players better. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
South_Aussie_Magic 90 Report post Posted January 1, 2020 On 1/1/2020 at 1:10 AM, hootie249 said: I want to be very clear about something. This is mostly about not wanting to give up certain players.In the last 8 years, hardly any of our players have warranted never give up status. Going all the way back to that Tobias trade, the idea was sound. We got a stretch 4 and a point guard, we needed both. We just chose poorly, got unlucky that the point guard was washed up. Ersan just torched us 2 nights ago, he was a good piece. Mostly we have chosen to develop players instead of moving the pieces around. What if we would have kept Tobias and Dipo but decided to trade Evan,Vuc and all those forwards we had.It's not crazy i remember at the time a lot of people on various boards thought they were all mediocre and we should keep shooting our shot until we got someone special.Other teams have done it with Philly being the most obvious, they gave up on MCW,Noel an Okafor right away. No waiting around to see if they "turn the corner". And this is not about tanking, some teams just evaluate and develop better.I just don't understand how we didn't see Elfrid was a bust soon enough. Actually we did see, our team management didn't. I don't see how we didn't get a veteran point guard in the early part of the decade. Other teams scooped up Lowry,Dragic,Thomas,Bledsoe when their original teams were not using them correctly. This isn't hindsight, i remember discussing all of those players years ago.And finally even though this post is about letting go of mediocre players, maybe we aren't using them correctly.This is my problem with Gordon right now. I don't know if he is what he shows or have we used him incorrectly.It seems everybody in the media wants us to trade the poor guy, maybe they see something. TL;DR. Why don't we make trades, develop players better. You won't get any disagreement from me. I am happy with having JI and Markelle, but really everything else is variable, and I was absolutely devastated we got rid of Victor. Not that I thought he should be untouchable but I thought he was the height of our "good character" team we had at the time and he just plays hard. Honestly the past is the past now and as I said, it doesn't matter so much WHO we get as much as it matters which dead weight we get rid of. Too many underwhelming pieces are cushy and comfortable here. I know fans and players alike bemoan the lack of loyalty but they get a whole lot quieter when their teams win. The only thing I'd say to you to keep in mind is that since that time you're speaking of above, a lot of our management has changed over and we really are not at the mercy of those who made those decisions. But Hammond and Weltman have got to be at a point where they've evaluated long enough to decide what to do next. I personally wait with baited breath as they say.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
