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Magic Vs. Warriors - Sunday, Dec. 1st at 6:00 P.M.

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5 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said:

Can't even blame it on the injury. Going 2-11 isn't a big deal. Going 2-11 because you took like 6 bad shots is a big deal. 

What’s happened to Gordon this year? My thoughts on AG are very well documented on here—but even I’m surprised of how poor his play is. Just seems like he’s regressing across the board. 

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1 hour ago, Just a regular Magic fan said:

I am a little confused. I see Coach Cliff standing on the sideline looking bewildered after poor offensive possession after another where guys aren’t moving, etc..Do our coaches actually coach or are the players just tuning them out and freelancing too much? 

These are our offensive sets. 

We also run a lot of horns

 

And here are the fournier-Vucevic plays. They have a name. 

A lot of NBA offense is designed to get a couple guys moving but then has options in it where you need to read the defense and make moves based on what you see. 

 

So when guys don't move they're usually trying not to get in the way of a play because you can only really have 3 guys moving at one time except maybe 3 guys make that read not to move at the same time. 

For example, let's say you have a fultz-Birch pick and roll with Isaac in the weakside corner and Fournier on the opposite wing and Gordon on the strong side corner. Isaac has to read Birch. If Birch rolls hard to the rim then Isaac has to stay in the corner as he's likely going to get a highly efficient wide open shot and cutting baseline is only going to crowd the paint. But if Birch pops then Isaac has to cut and fournier has to fill Isaac's spot in the corner. Gordon has to wait for the drive to fill in to the top. Moving quickly screws up the spacing. 

So that stuff is going on and sometimes guys just get caught watching or think something is happening and it doesn't happen. 

 

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5 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said:

Can't even blame it on the injury. Going 2-11 isn't a big deal. Going 2-11 because you took like 6 bad shots is a big deal. 

The shots that bother me the most are the crazy off-balance fadeaways or when he charges straight into the defense and throws prayers at the rim, these usually get blocked, stripped and stolen, or he misses badly. He does occassionaly have the game where he does everything he should be doing on offense and for the most part is always on point with his defense but, overall he has been pretty awful offensively this season. He's still young and I'm still betting that he figures it out, not a super star but at least a more consistent version of himself. 

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21 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

What’s happened to Gordon this year? My thoughts on AG are very well documented on here—but even I’m surprised of how poor his play is. Just seems like he’s regressing across the board. 

A lot of it is a sample size thing. It's only 15 games and we're not that far away from great games against Dallas, Denver, and Philly. 

But games like last night he just sometimes is bad on offense. We're sticking and he tries to make something happen and he gets hammered on drives and doesn't get a call and he lets that effect his game on offense. That's entirely on him. 

His defense has still been really good. He gave up 7 points last night and 2 of those points were the bad call against Bowman. But he doesn't really get credit for his defense because he's not making highlight plays. 

For example, since Isaac's "breakout" offensive game he's averaged 12 points on 37/27/75 shooting. But we give him a bit of a benefit of the doubt because he's making crazy highlight plays. And Isaac is a better defender than Gordon so don't get me wrong, but it's easy for the casual fan to see Isaac's value on defense because he blocked 5 shots but the casual fan isn't aware that Gordon held siakam to 0 points on 0-8 shooting or held Ben Simmons to 4 points and 1 assist over 40 possessions or held doncic to 36% shooting. 

So he's just having a rough start to the season on offense but he's still been really good for us overall. 

 

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AG is a enigma! He looks like he could be the next LeBron with his hops and athleticism, but when you look closely he is riddled with mistakes and poor decision making. He doesn’t seem to be learning and tends to play beyond his role; face it folks, he’s a high level role player and that is probably his ceiling. Yes, he’ll have a few good games here and there, but rarely strings any consistency together. Is he pyrite “fools gold”? If so, let’s sell high and balance out this roster. I’ll have a Dinwiddie/Harris plus pick for the win Alex.

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3 minutes ago, Magicpassion said:

AG is a enigma! He looks like he could be the next LeBron with his hops and athleticism, but when you look closely he is riddled with mistakes and poor decision making. He doesn’t seem to be learning and tends to play beyond his role; face it folks, he’s a high level role player and that is probably his ceiling. Yes, he’ll have a few good games here and there, but rarely strings any consistency together. Is he pyrite “fools gold”? If so, let’s sell high and balance out this roster. I’ll have a Dinwiddie/Harris plus pick for the win Alex.

Dinwiddie is a good player. 

Dinwiddie doesn't fit next to fultz because they play the exact same way and have the exact same strengths and weaknesses. 

 

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I’d give it a try and if it doesn’t work then flip him like The Warriors are doing with DRuss. There are those out there that believe Spencer can play off the ball. At the very minimum we have a strong back up and a excellent 3 pt shooter while maintaining our main core. AG is not a star and not likely to be anything more then a  high level defensive role player at best a borderline Allstar. It’s been 6 years and he is still making the same mistakes on shot selection. They’ll want him for perimeter defense mainly. 

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1 hour ago, Soul Bro said:

Our offensive system seems to be built around Vooch and looks discombobulated without him.

We had an even worse offensive rating when Vuch was playing.  Our offense just looks bad in general.  Not fun to watch at all.  

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4 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

We had an even worse offensive rating when Vuch was playing.  Our offense just looks bad in general.  Not fun to watch at all.  

That might be related to early season skewing numbers playing in lineups with DJ. Vucevic had the highest offensive rating of any magic player for November

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53 minutes ago, Magicpassion said:

I’d give it a try and if it doesn’t work then flip him like The Warriors are doing with DRuss. There are those out there that believe Spencer can play off the ball. At the very minimum we have a strong back up and a excellent 3 pt shooter while maintaining our main core. AG is not a star and not likely to be anything more then a  high level defensive role player at best a borderline Allstar. It’s been 6 years and he is still making the same mistakes on shot selection. They’ll want him for perimeter defense mainly. 

 

 

hat's bad team building philosophy. We know fultz and dinwiddie can't play together because we want fultz with the ball in his hands as much as possible. Gordon is the exact type of player you want playing in between fultz and Isaac. There's an opportunity cost for every move you make. You can't just make illogical moves to see what happens because you're bored having a guy on the roster for this long. 

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14 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said:

These are our offensive sets. 

We also run a lot of horns

 

And here are the fournier-Vucevic plays. They have a name. 

A lot of NBA offense is designed to get a couple guys moving but then has options in it where you need to read the defense and make moves based on what you see. 

 

So when guys don't move they're usually trying not to get in the way of a play because you can only really have 3 guys moving at one time except maybe 3 guys make that read not to move at the same time. 

For example, let's say you have a fultz-Birch pick and roll with Isaac in the weakside corner and Fournier on the opposite wing and Gordon on the strong side corner. Isaac has to read Birch. If Birch rolls hard to the rim then Isaac has to stay in the corner as he's likely going to get a highly efficient wide open shot and cutting baseline is only going to crowd the paint. But if Birch pops then Isaac has to cut and fournier has to fill Isaac's spot in the corner. Gordon has to wait for the drive to fill in to the top. Moving quickly screws up the spacing. 

So that stuff is going on and sometimes guys just get caught watching or think something is happening and it doesn't happen. 

 

Thanks! Good stuff here. I think I can now recognize Horns. The others, I am going to have to refer back to the video and see if I can make the connection because there is a lot there. The other day, I was complaining about DJ pinning himself along the sideline. Was he trying to run Angle Short? If so, he wasn't very successful because when they double him he has a hard time making the pass. 

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