magicblue 315 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 All I know is that when Birch started playing last year we started winning. Bamba better step it up and show something during this stretch or it will be time to move on from him once Vuch returns 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaVar 108 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 16 hours ago, TrueMagicFan07 said: B/R NBA Player Rankings: Top 15 Centers for 2019-20 1. Nikola Jokic 2. Joel Embiid 3. Karl Anthony-Townes 4. Rudy Gobert 5. LaMarcus Aldridge 6. Kristaps Porzingis 7. Andre Drummond 8. Myles Turner 9. Nikola Vucevic 10. Steven Adams 11. Marc Gasol 12. Brook Lopez 13. Clint Capela 14. Jonas Valanciunas 15. Deandre Ayton Edit: Dwight Howard is playing pretty well with the Lakers THERE YOU GO! Link https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2858459-br-nba-player-rankings-top-15-centers-for-2019-20#slide1 B/R, I dont think that turner is better than Vuch. He is a better defender but vuch has him in every other category - especially passing, rebounding, and post game. There is not a big gap from Vuch and Joker. Joker is no stud on defense either. Vuch is actually a better defender and rebound than Joker. Easy, I think vuch could be higher on that list. Particularly, if Joker is number 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, magicblue said: All I know is that when Birch started playing last year we started winning. Bamba better step it up and show something during this stretch or it will be time to move on from him once Vuch returns I still don't think it's really fair to point to Birch as the sole reason we started winning. It was Ross upping his scoring, Gordon going on a good shooting streak, Isaac going from a 28% three point shooter to a 38% three point shooter, switching Grant for briscoe and MCW changing up the pace and getting facilitators in the second unit, and switching a higher usage horrible player in Simmons to a low usage high energy player in iwundu. We played 17 games against non-playoff teams and caught Brooklyn missing most of their starters, Milwaukee without giannis, Toronto without Kawhi, golden State without Durant, and Philly without Simmons. So yeah, going from an unreliable rookie to a very reliable Birch helped but Birch wasn't "the reason" anymore than any of the other pieces were the reason. The signs of us going on a run started with Bamba still in the lineup. We lost 5 games due to bad luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, LaVar said: B/R, I dont think that turner is better than Vuch. He is a better defender but vuch has him in every other category. Especially passing, rebounding, and post game. I'm not sure Vuc is better at posting than Turner. Vucevic's post play looks pretty but it's completely ineffective on a per-possession basis. Turner rarely posts at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaVar 108 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Fultz4thewin said: I'm not sure Vuc is better at posting than Turner. Vucevic's post play looks pretty but it's completely ineffective on a per-possession basis. Turner rarely posts at all. Its simple. Turner does not post, because he is not a post player. He is pick and pop. Vuch kills small players in the post. This is important in this new switching league. Vuch also commands a double team there... It is why we can run the offense through him and where a lot of his assist are generated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magicblue 315 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Fultz4thewin said: I still don't think it's really fair to point to Birch as the sole reason we started winning. It was Ross upping his scoring, Gordon going on a good shooting streak, Isaac going from a 28% three point shooter to a 38% three point shooter, switching Grant for briscoe and MCW changing up the pace and getting facilitators in the second unit, and switching a higher usage horrible player in Simmons to a low usage high energy player in iwundu. We played 17 games against non-playoff teams and caught Brooklyn missing most of their starters, Milwaukee without giannis, Toronto without Kawhi, golden State without Durant, and Philly without Simmons. So yeah, going from an unreliable rookie to a very reliable Birch helped but Birch wasn't "the reason" anymore than any of the other pieces were the reason. The signs of us going on a run started with Bamba still in the lineup. We lost 5 games due to bad luck. I never said he was the sole reason. Grant and Simmons not playing helped too and there were other factors as well. But his energy is contagious and is so polar opposite of what Bamba brings. I think Cliff is gonna have a hard time demoting him back to 3rd string bench warmer once Vuc returns Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrueMagicFan07 671 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 2 hours ago, LaVar said: Its simple. Turner does not post, because he is not a post player. He is pick and pop. Vuch kills small players in the post. This is important in this new switching league. Vuch also commands a double team there... It is why we can run the offense through him and where a lot of his assist are generated. The top 15 centers in the B/R list are not small. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3rd Quarter Collapse 50 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 6 hours ago, TrueMagicFanSince1987 said: I’ve never seen Birch being bullied by a center in all the games I’ve watched him play. What he lacks for in height he makes up with strength and athleticism. While I am concerned a little with spacing Birch actually showed 3 point range in the offseason/preseason. Not saying he’s a threat out there but if he can hit open 3’s and bring that all around hustle I think we will be a better team because of it. Birch did better than what I remembered, but it’s at 5:33 on this video: Birch cedes deep positioning to Gasol in the paint, and then gives up ground to Gasol pretty easily once he starts backing down. He’s not dominated by Gasol, but he’s outmatched by Gasol’s strength here and gives up an easy bucket. Post ups are inefficient so I’m not worried about it since that kind of play will be a pretty rare occurrence, but strength can be an issue for Birch against centers in the mold of Gasol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 531 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 58 minutes ago, 3rd Quarter Collapse said: Birch did better than what I remembered, but it’s at 5:33 on this video: Birch cedes deep positioning to Gasol in the paint, and then gives up ground to Gasol pretty easily once he starts backing down. He’s not dominated by Gasol, but he’s outmatched by Gasol’s strength here and gives up an easy bucket. Post ups are inefficient so I’m not worried about it since that kind of play will be a pretty rare occurrence, but strength can be an issue for Birch against centers in the mold of Gasol. He’s better than vuch against gasol. And gasol is a large man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, 3rd Quarter Collapse said: Birch did better than what I remembered, but it’s at 5:33 on this video: Birch cedes deep positioning to Gasol in the paint, and then gives up ground to Gasol pretty easily once he starts backing down. He’s not dominated by Gasol, but he’s outmatched by Gasol’s strength here and gives up an easy bucket. Post ups are inefficient so I’m not worried about it since that kind of play will be a pretty rare occurrence, but strength can be an issue for Birch against centers in the mold of Gasol. That's kind of the point I'm trying to make though. Gasol can push Birch around but he's not much of an offensive player anymore. There's only a few guys that can actively exploit him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJZFL 619 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 10 hours ago, TrueMagicFanSince1987 said: I’ve never seen Birch being bullied by a center in all the games I’ve watched him play. What he lacks for in height he makes up with strength and athleticism. While I am concerned a little with spacing Birch actually showed 3 point range in the offseason/preseason. Not saying he’s a threat out there but if he can hit open 3’s and bring that all around hustle I think we will be a better team because of it. If he starts, he'll have Fultz, Isaac, Gordon, and Fournier surrounding him. Spacing should not be a big issue. Probably more shots for Isaac, Fultz, and Gordon, and hopefully a faster tempo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaVar 108 Report post Posted November 23, 2019 9 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said: I still don't think it's really fair to point to Birch as the sole reason we started winning. It was Ross upping his scoring, Gordon going on a good shooting streak, Isaac going from a 28% three point shooter to a 38% three point shooter, switching Grant for briscoe and MCW changing up the pace and getting facilitators in the second unit, and switching a higher usage horrible player in Simmons to a low usage high energy player in iwundu. We played 17 games against non-playoff teams and caught Brooklyn missing most of their starters, Milwaukee without giannis, Toronto without Kawhi, golden State without Durant, and Philly without Simmons. So yeah, going from an unreliable rookie to a very reliable Birch helped but Birch wasn't "the reason" anymore than any of the other pieces were the reason. The signs of us going on a run started with Bamba still in the lineup. We lost 5 games due to bad luck. I agree. MCW was a big reason. It was a combination of Ross, Khem, and MCW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites