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2019-2020 Official Trade Ideas Thread

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1 hour ago, Fultz4thewin said:

There's not really that much to criticise. They've only been in charge for 2.5 years so far. Most of their moves have been sound from a strategic standpoint. I do wish they'd fill end of bench spots more like they did last year with Martin and Grant because one of those moves is going to pay off eventually and is really low cost. 

Isaac was a great pick. Bamba is about where he should be from a development perspective, flashing elite shot blocking numbers and shooting but it remains to be seen if those moments can turn into a well rounded player. Okeke hasn't played yet. Iwundu is a pretty solid pick relative to what you expect from a pick in the 30s. 

Fultz trade was awesome. 

It might be a mistake to resign Vucevic but it's only a mistake if we end up stuck with him. If we get positive value in a Vucevic trade it's worth resigning him. 

 

I was pretty critical of their 2 way contract guys but it's pretty difficult to get that upset about two way guys. 

BJ Johnson looks promising though. Vic Law is starting to get some hype. 

So I don't know. There's not a ton to criticise. 

      I agree somewhat, but it still seems like we were one of a very small group of teams in on Fultz. I'm hesitant to give them credit for that trade. The return Philly got makes it look like we won, but it sure looks like nobody was offering much 

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8 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said:

There's not really that much to criticise. They've only been in charge for 2.5 years so far. Most of their moves have been sound from a strategic standpoint.

So I don't know. There's not a ton to criticise. 

I disagree with some of those assessments, but you already know that. ;)

They had 2.5 years (and 3 offseasons) to change what was a bad constructed team (by Henningan) in opinion of most, and they've maintained a lot of that structure. I understand the first year of evaluation, but after that, a lot of choices were just to confirm the status quo, or re-up it as in the case of a fat contract for Vucevic (we haven't get positive value for him in years, when he had a fairly great contract, I really doubt we'll have it now that he's signed long term for a lot of money. And even if we get a decent value back, sometimes the cap space is just more valuable than a mediocre player)

The choice of coach Clifford could be considered solid from the point of view that he's given a solid system to the team and was able to give them playoff experience, but together with the choice of having a lot of defensive - long armed guys, that put us in a stagnant situation in which there's little fantasy and ability to make innovative choices. That team as constructed could have been great on 2000's, but NBA is trending on another path in the last few years. We're too much one dimensional, our defense is not that great to cover other deficiencies, and our coach is not the one that will save us thinking outside the box.

While I could agree that the draft choice's has been good, or at least above average, there's still an inability to improve the end of the bench talent/upside as you already recognized. Fultz trade was clearly good, and that a sign that we could/should be more active and creative than what we are.

My biggest concern is, as always, that we're already hard capped for a team that isn't going nowhere. Hard capped just for resigning guys that are not really difference makers, in a choice that could hinder our young guys growth in the process. It's normal to have a bolted cap when you're a contender, but right now we're just a mediocre team that could be 7th or 8th in the East, hopefully. We would really need to have space to make more moves and improve that roster, but in the situation we're, we could not really take back any big salary in a deal with other good assets, for example. We're stuck with what we have, and the idea of waiting for 2021 sounds like previous (Henningan again) projects that never materialized. It's good to have Fultz and Isaac as our base (hope) for that project, but we're not exactly talking about sure Top-10 players on the league either. Would love them to become such players, but it's still a long way to go there. Also, are we playing them the right way to become that great? I'm not sure.

I obviously really hope that you're right and I'm wrong, for the good of the team we root. But I'm really not convinced at all by the management ability to get us over the top, until now.

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20 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said:

I don't know about the validity of that rumor but I'm guessing it's Blake Griffin

Why would you guess that?

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11 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said:

There's not really that much to criticise. They've only been in charge for 2.5 years so far. Most of their moves have been sound from a strategic standpoint. I do wish they'd fill end of bench spots more like they did last year with Martin and Grant because one of those moves is going to pay off eventually and is really low cost. 

Isaac was a great pick. Bamba is about where he should be from a development perspective, flashing elite shot blocking numbers and shooting but it remains to be seen if those moments can turn into a well rounded player. Okeke hasn't played yet. Iwundu is a pretty solid pick relative to what you expect from a pick in the 30s. 

Fultz trade was awesome. 

It might be a mistake to resign Vucevic but it's only a mistake if we end up stuck with him. If we get positive value in a Vucevic trade it's worth resigning him. 

 

I was pretty critical of their 2 way contract guys but it's pretty difficult to get that upset about two way guys. 

BJ Johnson looks promising though. Vic Law is starting to get some hype. 

So I don't know. There's not a ton to criticise. 

My criticism is they don’t seem to be able to pull anything off unless it’s pretty much handed to them. 
 

Also, they seem to have both toes dipped in two oceans. Keep the core of mediocrity while trying to win in the draft with a lower pick.

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2 hours ago, Luke_FfS said:

I disagree with some of those assessments, but you already know that. ;)

 

They had 2.5 years (and 3 offseasons) to change what was a bad constructed team (by Henningan) in opinion of most, and they've maintained a lot of that structure. I understand the first year of evaluation, but after that, a lot of choices were just to confirm the status quo, or re-up it as in the case of a fat contract for Vucevic (we haven't get positive value for him in years, when he had a fairly great contract, I really doubt we'll have it now that he's signed long term for a lot of money. And even if we get a decent value back, sometimes the cap space is just more valuable than a mediocre player)

 

The choice of coach Clifford could be considered solid from the point of view that he's given a solid system to the team and was able to give them playoff experience, but together with the choice of having a lot of defensive - long armed guys, that put us in a stagnant situation in which there's little fantasy and ability to make innovative choices. That team as constructed could have been great on 2000's, but NBA is trending on another path in the last few years. We're too much one dimensional, our defense is not that great to cover other deficiencies, and our coach is not the one that will save us thinking outside the box.

 

While I could agree that the draft choice's has been good, or at least above average, there's still an inability to improve the end of the bench talent/upside as you already recognized. Fultz trade was clearly good, and that a sign that we could/should be more active and creative than what we are.

 

My biggest concern is, as always, that we're already hard capped for a team that isn't going nowhere. Hard capped just for resigning guys that are not really difference makers, in a choice that could hinder our young guys growth in the process. It's normal to have a bolted cap when you're a contender, but right now we're just a mediocre team that could be 7th or 8th in the East, hopefully. We would really need to have space to make more moves and improve that roster, but in the situation we're, we could not really take back any big salary in a deal with other good assets, for example. We're stuck with what we have, and the idea of waiting for 2021 sounds like previous (Henningan again) projects that never materialized. It's good to have Fultz and Isaac as our base (hope) for that project, but we're not exactly talking about sure Top-10 players on the league either. Would love them to become such players, but it's still a long way to go there. Also, are we playing them the right way to become that great? I'm not sure.

 

I obviously really hope that you're right and I'm wrong, for the good of the team we root. But I'm really not convinced at all by the management ability to get us over the top, until now.

 

We're only hard capped for this season. And only because we used the full MLE. Next year we won't be hard capped. 

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49 minutes ago, Fultz4thewin said:

We're only hard capped for this season. And only because we used the full MLE. Next year we won't be hard capped. 

Because of the MLE and all the new contract handled to the old regime players. Without all those moves, we could have easily space to make better market moves, while using our young core players more properly. If the point last year was giving them playoff experience, they added that, and this season was the time for them to shine. For me the last offseason was the turning point, and IMO we chosed the wrong direction.

Next year, we will have around 116m in players salary already  ---> https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly/cap/

While the total could go down depending on some choices and some numbers that maybe are not accurate (Mozgov?), we'll need to fill the roster to 15 players anyway, and if we use the MLE again, we'll probably hard capped again.

Anyway, the discussion was about reason to criticise the management, and while I respect your opinion saying that there's really no reason to do so, I think that the other side of the judgement has valid arguments too.

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I’m neutral with the front office at this point. JI was our best pick and the Fultz deal was a no brainer for what we gave up. On the other hand Iwundu has not grown much if any this year, Frazier can’t hardly get on floor, Bamba I’m afraid we’ll never solve this motor problem. MCW is always hurt and inefficient. Burch is strictly defense and at times a little small. Before injury Aminu seems to be a let down so far. Let’s give our Lakeland guys a shot; some are balling. If we keep losing think let’s try and tank properly this year.

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3 hours ago, Luke_FfS said:

I disagree with some of those assessments, but you already know that. ;)

 

They had 2.5 years (and 3 offseasons) to change what was a bad constructed team (by Henningan) in opinion of most, and they've maintained a lot of that structure. I understand the first year of evaluation, but after that, a lot of choices were just to confirm the status quo, or re-up it as in the case of a fat contract for Vucevic (we haven't get positive value for him in years, when he had a fairly great contract, I really doubt we'll have it now that he's signed long term for a lot of money. And even if we get a decent value back, sometimes the cap space is just more valuable than a mediocre player)

 

The choice of coach Clifford could be considered solid from the point of view that he's given a solid system to the team and was able to give them playoff experience, but together with the choice of having a lot of defensive - long armed guys, that put us in a stagnant situation in which there's little fantasy and ability to make innovative choices. That team as constructed could have been great on 2000's, but NBA is trending on another path in the last few years. We're too much one dimensional, our defense is not that great to cover other deficiencies, and our coach is not the one that will save us thinking outside the box.

 

While I could agree that the draft choice's has been good, or at least above average, there's still an inability to improve the end of the bench talent/upside as you already recognized. Fultz trade was clearly good, and that a sign that we could/should be more active and creative than what we are.

 

My biggest concern is, as always, that we're already hard capped for a team that isn't going nowhere. Hard capped just for resigning guys that are not really difference makers, in a choice that could hinder our young guys growth in the process. It's normal to have a bolted cap when you're a contender, but right now we're just a mediocre team that could be 7th or 8th in the East, hopefully. We would really need to have space to make more moves and improve that roster, but in the situation we're, we could not really take back any big salary in a deal with other good assets, for example. We're stuck with what we have, and the idea of waiting for 2021 sounds like previous (Henningan again) projects that never materialized. It's good to have Fultz and Isaac as our base (hope) for that project, but we're not exactly talking about sure Top-10 players on the league either. Would love them to become such players, but it's still a long way to go there. Also, are we playing them the right way to become that great? I'm not sure.

 

I obviously really hope that you're right and I'm wrong, for the good of the team we root. But I'm really not convinced at all by the management ability to get us over the top, until now.

 

Great post. And I agree, I hate the direction we chose to go in. A lot of this sounds like Hennigan 2.0 which is disappointing. 

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2 hours ago, Magicman28 said:

My criticism is they don’t seem to be able to pull anything off unless it’s pretty much handed to them. 

 

Thats their MO. They will wait for trades that benefit us instead of forcing trades where we would overpay.  Have to be patient and wait for the right moment, but opportunities like this do come, just like one with Fultz did.

They are not about the short term unless its a move that would also have positive long term impact, like getting draft picks, unloading salaries or just a straight up better fit in some player.

 

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3 hours ago, Luke_FfS said:

I disagree with some of those assessments, but you already know that. ;)

 

They had 2.5 years (and 3 offseasons) to change what was a bad constructed team (by Henningan) in opinion of most, and they've maintained a lot of that structure. I understand the first year of evaluation, but after that, a lot of choices were just to confirm the status quo, or re-up it as in the case of a fat contract for Vucevic (we haven't get positive value for him in years, when he had a fairly great contract, I really doubt we'll have it now that he's signed long term for a lot of money. And even if we get a decent value back, sometimes the cap space is just more valuable than a mediocre player)

 

The choice of coach Clifford could be considered solid from the point of view that he's given a solid system to the team and was able to give them playoff experience, but together with the choice of having a lot of defensive - long armed guys, that put us in a stagnant situation in which there's little fantasy and ability to make innovative choices. That team as constructed could have been great on 2000's, but NBA is trending on another path in the last few years. We're too much one dimensional, our defense is not that great to cover other deficiencies, and our coach is not the one that will save us thinking outside the box.

 

While I could agree that the draft choice's has been good, or at least above average, there's still an inability to improve the end of the bench talent/upside as you already recognized. Fultz trade was clearly good, and that a sign that we could/should be more active and creative than what we are.

 

My biggest concern is, as always, that we're already hard capped for a team that isn't going nowhere. Hard capped just for resigning guys that are not really difference makers, in a choice that could hinder our young guys growth in the process. It's normal to have a bolted cap when you're a contender, but right now we're just a mediocre team that could be 7th or 8th in the East, hopefully. We would really need to have space to make more moves and improve that roster, but in the situation we're, we could not really take back any big salary in a deal with other good assets, for example. We're stuck with what we have, and the idea of waiting for 2021 sounds like previous (Henningan again) projects that never materialized. It's good to have Fultz and Isaac as our base (hope) for that project, but we're not exactly talking about sure Top-10 players on the league either. Would love them to become such players, but it's still a long way to go there. Also, are we playing them the right way to become that great? I'm not sure.

 

I obviously really hope that you're right and I'm wrong, for the good of the team we root. But I'm really not convinced at all by the management ability to get us over the top, until now.

 

      I know this post was long but it is a realization of our worst fears this off season. It was great going back to the playoffs last year, but we were not a good team.

We resigned people to be average and already we are falling below that. Add to this fact that most board members knew our players were average for years and pleaded for management to trade them.I like Vuc, i love Ross, we did not have to sign them. We are hard capped like the above poster said and about to lose our best offensive player in the off season.For those of you who like Gordon and Evan they both are very likely to be traded simply because they are our best assets.Centers are still valued in this league but not at 28 million a year, he is not going anywhere.

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