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Fultz4thewin

2019-2020 Official Regular Season Thread

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30 minutes ago, The Neighborhood Bully said:

We are 4th in blocks and 5th in defense.

We are 24th in 3's made, 25th in 3 point %, and 27th in offense.

I interpret our needs a little differently than Robbins and Partnow.

 

Agreed. I think giving Bamba another season is fine. A healthy JI can mitigate any percieved rim protection issues as well. Birch is a fine 3rd C or maybe someone you look to trade, a contender might think they can use him as a bench big on a small salary.

The offense is the issue. And it kind of goes beyond just 3 point shooting. Although more shooters would be a start.

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If you really want to add more rim protection go get Christ Koumadje from the G League, he just averaged over 4 BPG, he went to highschool and college in Florida and he'll be cheap.

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I agree that our problem is offense, but it's also not like our defense was top of the world... if it would have been, we were not figghting for a mere 7th seed in the East.

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Just now, Luke_FfS said:

I agree that our problem is offense, but it's also not like our defense was top of the world... if it would have been, we were not figghting for a mere 7th seed in the East.

I would say our defense started becoming suspect after JI went down with his injury. Before that he was anchoring this team down and was at least playing as a First All Team Defense and maybe even DPOY. We get JI back and we get back to playing suffocating defense. His play is that infectious and sorely lacking on this team. 

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11 hours ago, Luke_FfS said:

I agree that our problem is offense, but it's also not like our defense was top of the world... if it would have been, we were not figghting for a mere 7th seed in the East.

The issue is how do you realistically improve our defense over what we've already got. If you think you need a better shot blocking big you're giving up on Bamba who if nothing else has proven he's an excellent shot blocker (there's very little chance we get a big like that this off-season that will supplant Vuc). I can't see a reasonable path to getting better defensive forwards than Isaac and AG. Fultz is long and gets steals. Bench guys like MCW, TRoss, Birch and Ennis are all competent on that end at least. Fournier isn't some matador defender either. Obviously Augustin is a negative defensive player but he's a backup PG. Vuc has his limitations obviously but he's not been as bad as he has been historically since Cliff came in.

Without looking I'd imagine we've been a top 10 defense by most metrics.

Unless you want to wholesale change system I can't see any way we improve our defense outside of incrementally through familiarity with the system, internal improvement and continuing to add bench players who play D. 

In contrast we're a bottom 5 offense. Isaac and Fultz still need a lot of growth offensively, AG is what he is on offense which is probably a 4th or 5th option. Vuc is good at a lot of offensive things but is still ineffecient because he takes too many shots in the mid range and doesn't get to the line nearly enough for someone 7 foot tall who takes 15 shots a game. Bamba, MCW, Ennis, Birch, Aminu are all negatives on offense without shooters and/or creators around them. You're basically left with Vuc, Fournier, Augustin and T Ross as non negative offensive guys (and Augustin wasnt very good this season). Fournier though as good as he has been this year is really someone who'd benefit greatly from being a 3rd option not a 1st or 2nd option. Same with Vuc, he's probably a second option masquerading as a first option.

Ultimately though we're locked in to this core (sans a Fournier decision and a crazy trade I wouldn't expect) for the next season at least so the best way to improve our offense (aside from Fultz and Isaac rapidly improving) is by adding complimentary guys who can do specific jobs. A guy who can get his own shot in the second unit would really help. As would more guys who can stretch the floor in general so that Fultz has more space to drive and Vuc has more space to post. 

Chuma Okeke will hopefully be a plus shooter. If you don't resign Augustin you need a backup PG that can either shoot lights out or create for himself and others. And then probably one more guard or wing that can shoot or create. 

Draft one and sign one.

Langston Galloway might be worth a look in free agency. Can play a bit of point guard but he's mostly an off ball player who isn't a bad defensive player and stretches the floor. He's short for a SG but he's got that wingspan that WeltHam love. Not sure how much money he'll command though.

Sorry for the long post I'm really bored.

 

 

 

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My post was really short instead, so I'll try to explain a little more:

- Isaac absence was surely a factor, and I value him a lot from a defensive point of view, but it's not like we were that great even before his injury. We were around 107 DFRT with him, and just a little worst after losing him (1+ point ).  Also, record was 14-19, so we weren't all that good even with him healthy.

- I agree 100% that we should concentrate on adding offensive minded players in the future (that are still quite good in defense, not one dimensional shooters who doesn't defend at all for sure) but my point was that, even if we have a roster that is more defensive oriented, the product was not that great this season. I was surely expecting a lot more, especially after the first year under Clifford, and having mantained the same roster and the same def- schemes. If you're a top defensive team, you're almost automatically in the Top5 in the East, that should have been our target, but we weren't even close.

- I don't know what was the problem. Sometimes that team just look disinderested. I cannot say if it was a scheme problem, the lack of a leader, lack of grit,  the presence of a richer Vuch in the middle :P, or something else, but I was definitely expecting something more after the previous season + the addition of Fultz, especially considering that the roster is totally defensive oriented right now. (Top 10 is not enough for me with that kind of philosophy/roster/coach)

 

Don't want to be negative, but at the same time I want to be realistic. After the break we all desire to watch basket again, and maybe we tend to forget how painful to watch that team was that season. We had a lot of problems, offense is surely one of the most glaring, but it's not like we were elite in defense, and I don't want to fool myself.

If we can get back, Isaac is fit, and we're elite, then we have a chance to be competitive in such a strange end of season. Would be a great experience, but it's not that probable if we're the same of the October/March season.

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You are right.  I went and looked at the numbers and they aren't that great. We're 10th in DRTG which isn't really good enough for a team that is kind of built to be defensive.

But with a healthy JI, another off season of improvement from Bamba and whoever we add this summer we'll probably be ok on that end compared to the offensive end where we just suck.

Games will be a lot more fun if we become a more average offensive team. A team in the top 10 on defense and around about 15th on offense probably does challenge for a 5th seed. A team 10th on defense and 25th (or whatever it is I should have checked when I looked up the DRTG) on offense is only ever going to be a 7th or 8th seed. 

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If you like at Clifford's time with the Hornets it does look encouraging (this is all per Basketball Reference which appears different to NBA.com for us this year strangely): 

Year 1: 24th on offense, 5th defense

Year 2: 28th on offense, 9th defense

Year 3: 9th on offense, 8th defense

Year 4: 14th on offense, 14th on defense

In Orlando:

Year 1: 22nd on offense, 8th on defense

Year 2: 24th on offense, 9th on defense

Now to be fair in year 3 in Charlotte he's starting to get nearly prime Kemba, they add Batum who's a 16/6/6 guy, Jeremy Lin has a great year off the bench and they trade for Courtney Lee at the deadline who helps them space the floor. But we should be at least hopeful that there is evidence of Coach Cliff coaching a top 10 offense. And that also does kind of demonstrate how adding roleplayers (albeit it's unlikely we'll add someone as good as Batum this summer) can help your offense. 

It's also interesting to note that in Cliffs first year Al Jefferson was their top scorer and by year 3 (tbf it looks like he got injured) they were much more perimeter centric. I'm not implying that'll happen with Vuc anytime soon but again there's evidence that Cliff can transition an offense from one that fed a big man in the post to one lead more by a PG. 

Mostly though looking at those Charlotte teams just gives me hope because they were not great teams by any stretch, but they made the playoffs, and even took the 3 seed Heat to 7 games in 2016 (admittedly they were a week 3rd seed). If Cliff ever got given a team with a couple of serious talents I think he'd be good enough as a coach to go deep in the playoffs. 

Whether that happens here probably depends on how our youngsters work out and what moves we make in the next year or two.

 

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Can this season. Start again in October. I'm from Australia and USA seems like its imploding atm. Its gonna be more trouble than its worth re-starting. Bring on the draft

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22 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

If you like at Clifford's time with the Hornets it does look encouraging (this is all per Basketball Reference which appears different to NBA.com for us this year strangely): 

Year 1: 24th on offense, 5th defense

Year 2: 28th on offense, 9th defense

Year 3: 9th on offense, 8th defense

Year 4: 14th on offense, 14th on defense

In Orlando:

Year 1: 22nd on offense, 8th on defense

Year 2: 24th on offense, 9th on defense

Now to be fair in year 3 in Charlotte he's starting to get nearly prime Kemba, they add Batum who's a 16/6/6 guy, Jeremy Lin has a great year off the bench and they trade for Courtney Lee at the deadline who helps them space the floor. But we should be at least hopeful that there is evidence of Coach Cliff coaching a top 10 offense. And that also does kind of demonstrate how adding roleplayers (albeit it's unlikely we'll add someone as good as Batum this summer) can help your offense. 

It's also interesting to note that in Cliffs first year Al Jefferson was their top scorer and by year 3 (tbf it looks like he got injured) they were much more perimeter centric. I'm not implying that'll happen with Vuc anytime soon but again there's evidence that Cliff can transition an offense from one that fed a big man in the post to one lead more by a PG. 

Mostly though looking at those Charlotte teams just gives me hope because they were not great teams by any stretch, but they made the playoffs, and even took the 3 seed Heat to 7 games in 2016 (admittedly they were a week 3rd seed). If Cliff ever got given a team with a couple of serious talents I think he'd be good enough as a coach to go deep in the playoffs. 

Whether that happens here probably depends on how our youngsters work out and what moves we make in the next year or two.

 

Batum and all those other role players just fell off a cliff. They should have cleared house first and tried to actually do something with Kemba and Cliff, but oh well, that's their problem!

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I would like to have the same kind of hope about Clifford and management, but until now, all the GM choices and the coach philosophy screams mediocrity to me, that was basically what Charlotte was in all those 5 years. Borderline playoff team, first round exit, no improvement on having the same group year after year, zero cap space to make smart moves, and so on...

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On 6/19/2020 at 10:40 AM, harley said:

Can this season. Start again in October. I'm from Australia and USA seems like its imploding atm. Its gonna be more trouble than its worth re-starting. Bring on the draft

I agree, and said much the same in an earlier post.

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