2019-2020 Official Regular Season Thread

[Magicpassion 4]

I find it very difficult to make an assertion that one peticular player is better then another when the tiers are so tight. I feel that it all depends on the system and the core that player is playing on as to whether the said player will excel at the level that many would project him to. 

[The Buccaneer 74]

1 hour ago, Fultz4thewin said:

That's the problem though. If you're invested in fultz and Isaac and you pay the money to resign Fournier at the price it's going to cost to keep him at this number you don't have a trade to make. There's no point in going after a star. 

If fultz is your end of game creator and Isaac is your siakam and Fournier is your supplementary off ball scorer you don't need a star, you need the version of Gordon that's a cutter, mismatch scorer, on ball defender. 

How likely is it that we ride out two years of Vuc and by then Bamba is ready? Or Okeke turns out to be good enough that AG is trade asset? 
 

Personally I’d love if this version of the team gave us a solid contender for a couple of years. I’d Be quite happy if those guys (Vuc, Evan, Ross) could turn the narrative that they were Hennigan losers into Weltham winners. It’d be nice if guys who have been here for a while could have positive memories of Orlando. 

[Soul Bro 1,419]

7 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said:

What if he's Kyle Lowry, Lou Williams, Goran Dragic, Mike Conley, gallinari where it just clicks later?

What if it's just a contract year performance?

How much is due to playing with Fultz? Also can we extend him now (if we want) or do we have to wait?

[Soul Bro 1,419]

What's happened to Lauri Markkanen? Buy low candidate?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

42 minutes ago, Soul Bro said:

How much is due to playing with Fultz? Also can we extend him now (if we want) or do we have to wait?

I don't know. He's done this in the past before where he'll average 20-22ppg for 7 or 11 or whatever games.

Step one is figuring out if he's averaging 20ppg or if his scoring is just a 14 game stretch averaging 24 propping up his numbers. 

Step two is figuring out if this is a phase or if this is the result of playing in his proper role and benefiting from the pressure fultz puts on a defense. 

If this is the result of fultz, that's a good thing. I'd be more confident in this continuing. 

 

[Just a regular Magic fan 38]

10 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said:

That's the problem though. If you're invested in fultz and Isaac and you pay the money to resign Fournier at the price it's going to cost to keep him at this number you don't have a trade to make. There's no point in going after a star. 

If fultz is your end of game creator and Isaac is your siakam and Fournier is your supplementary off ball scorer you don't need a star, you need the version of Gordon that's a cutter, mismatch scorer, on ball defender. 

 

So what are you going to trade Gordon for? A better off ball 3 and D forward? A better center than Vucevic?

7

That's why I asked. I wasn't sure if it made sense. I still haven't given up on AG and hope the light comes on. I haven't looked at the stats, but it seems to me when AG is on and has a good night offensively, we usually win. The problem is those nights are few and far between. The dude has everything he needs physically. He just needs to stay calm between the ears and not try and do too much when he has the ball in his hands. If he can develop some offensive consistency, I think we all would be very happy with the results in the win/loss column. My fear is that we trade the guy and then it all comes together for him and the new team he is on. 

[Magicman28 295]

6 hours ago, Fultz4thewin said:

That's the problem though. If you're invested in fultz and Isaac and you pay the money to resign Fournier at the price it's going to cost to keep him at this number you don't have a trade to make. There's no point in going after a star. 

If fultz is your end of game creator and Isaac is your siakam and Fournier is your supplementary off ball scorer you don't need a star, you need the version of Gordon that's a cutter, mismatch scorer, on ball defender. 

That’s why I wouldn’t do it. I don’t see Fournier keeping this up and even if he can, we would be locked in for a while as is. We aren’t contenders.

[ML6 520]

My take on the AG trade situation:

Historically, opposing fans and lots of writers have attempted to create unnecessary and often lopsided AG trades to "get him out of Orlando" for some reason.  All of those propositions to this point have been premature due to a) the organization needing time to evaluate its various pieces so it can determine who the building blocks are, and b) his role next to Isaac generally working (which outside observers claimed it didn't).

With that said, as Isaac and Fultz continue to show progression and almost certainly will receive extensions, the team will soon be at a point where it can't commit to everyone long term.  Outside of those two, Gordon is our most valuable trade piece in terms of expected return.  There is truth to the idea that he would be the guy we'd look to move to supplement the team with other types of skills/assets.  Then you combine all of that theoretical rationale with his regression in decision making and shot selection so far this year, and it no longer seems crazy that the organization would entertain some trade considerations.  Mix in the human components -- west coast guy who will have already played 8 seasons across the country when he enters UFA -- and you also have the risk of him walking if you don't trade him beforehand.

So all in all, I don't think he gets traded this year but I also don't think he plays out his entire contract here. 

[Soul Bro 1,419]

1 hour ago, Magicman28 said:

That’s why I wouldn’t do it. I don’t see Fournier keeping this up and even if he can, we would be locked in for a while as is. We aren’t contenders.

Agree. Locking up Fournier, while I'm not opposed to it in a vacuum, hinders our flexibility moving forward. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

14 minutes ago, Soul Bro said:

Agree. Locking up Fournier, while I'm not opposed to it in a vacuum, hinders our flexibility moving forward. 

Yup. 

But then we end up in a situation in the hypothetical world where this is who he is where we're kicking ourselves for letting a shooting guard go who is almost exactly what we need. 

Really scary situation. I kind of hope he regresses so we can have clarity moving forward. 

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

Is it fair to say Evan is a top 15 SG even without this crazy pace he's on? If so how do we upgrade that position without the luck of a top 10 SG wanting out or wanting to come here? 

I just find the path to upgrading Fournier pretty difficult because he isn't quite good enough to be a needle mover but not bad enough to be easily replaceable.

Do we just replace him with another 12-17 ranked guy who makes less? How easy will it be to land that guy and while it helps our flexibility does it hurt our team wins?

Not a fun spot to be in.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

15 minutes ago, TheNameIsOrlando said:

Is it fair to say Evan is a top 15 SG even without this crazy pace he's on? If so how do we upgrade that position without the luck of a top 10 SG wanting out or wanting to come here? 

I just find the path to upgrading Fournier pretty difficult because he isn't quite good enough to be a needle mover but not bad enough to be easily replaceable.

Do we just replace him with another 12-17 ranked guy who makes less? How easy will it be to land that guy and while it helps our flexibility does it hurt our team wins?

Not a fun spot to be in.

Normal fournier is somewhere between the 19th and 30th best shooting guard. 

16ppg 3 rebounds 3 assists on 37% three point shooting and .524 eFG% is typical Fournier. He's an ok team defender but gets exploited by faster guards but also is pretty good defending switches against bigger players as he's not really exploitable in the post. 

This year he's been between the 7th and 10th best shooting guard 20ppg 3 rebounds and 3 assists on 45% three point shooting and .582 eFG%

16 ppg 37% three point shooting and unimpactful defense is an unremarkable starter that is pretty easy to replace. You can find most of that offensive production with better defense in free agency.  Alec Burks or Dillon Brooks isn't far off from that. You can get that in a trade today with Malik Beasley or Bogdan Bogdanovic. 

18 ish ppg on 40+% three point shooting is dramatically different and difficult to find.