Jump to content
Fultz4thewin

2019-2020 Official Regular Season Thread

Recommended Posts

On 7/4/2020 at 8:12 AM, CTMagicUK said:

I think that's a little harsh personally. He's shooting over 50% on 2s this season. Hes shot 67% at the rim, he creates his own shot (only 44% of his 2 point field goals were assisted), he's a relatively low turnover player comparative to his usage. Honestly if I had a star player or two and wanted a 3rd or 4th option, or a 6th man to play starters minutes I'd be really interested in Evan Fournier.

We all know you're not going to win an NBA championship with Evan Fournier as your best wing/guard scorer which is why this is a conversation. But that's not a slight on him, I personally think we should be praying he opts in so we can trade him otherwise we lose one of our best players for nothing (not even cap space). Or have to commit to this core for another 4 years (to be clear I don't think we should do this). 

Make no mistake though I think we'll be a worse offensive team when he's gone unless we can adequately replace his shooting, shot creation and efficiency either with one player or by committee.

He's a good offensive player, he'd probably be more efficient if he didn't have to create his own shot as much, and he's not a liability defensively. I actually think he'd fit pretty well in Denver or Brooklyn.

CT......How's it going over there? Well, in a nutshell, I think we arrive at the same points of interest regarding Evan. He is a career journeyman at best in my view.  Now it's possible that I hold his current contract against him, because we lost VO in that process, along with a very promising rookie Big man.

Of course the responsible party is Rob Hennigan, but Evan serves as a constant reminder (negative reminder) of those God awful days. I'm holding out for Chuma Okeke, Fultz and JI along with the rest of our young core to develop nicely in this abbreviated season.

In fact, if Evan opted out, that would, in my estimation, accelerate such a development. You make great points in his behalf, and I  do believe he gives his all, but I am ready to move on from Evan, it would be best for all parties. IMHO

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, chosen12 said:

CT......How's it going over there? Well, in a nutshell, I think we arrive at the same points of interest regarding Evan. He is a career journeyman at best in my view.  Now it's possible that I hold his current contract against him, because we lost VO in that process, along with a very promising rookie Big man.

Of course the responsible party is Rob Hennigan, but Evan serves as a constant reminder (negative reminder) of those God awful days. I'm holding out for Chuma Okeke, Fultz and JI along with the rest of our young core to develop nicely in this abbreviated season.

In fact, if Evan opted out, that would, in my estimation, accelerate such a development. You make great points in his behalf, and I  do believe he gives his all, but I am ready to move on from Evan, it would be best for all parties. IMHO

 

Hey man, I'm as good as can be in these trying times. How are you? 

I don't consider Evan a journeyman. But that might be more of a difference in our understanding of the words. To me James Ennis is a journeyman. He's had 7 NBA teams in 6 seasons. Evan Fournier isn't an all star, I'm not arguing he is, but he's a valuable starter on a playoff team. That's more than a journeyman to me.

It's not Evans fault we traded Oladipo. It's not this current managements fault we traded Oladipo. (In hindsight Oladipo and Fournier probably could have played together too).

Holding something against him that's completely out of his control isn't a very level headed way to approach things. And I think that's the problem with Magic fans at the minute. They're not evaluating things. They're not being level headed theyve just decided they're fed up of the same roster and want a shake up. But they have to understand that there isn't a better perimeter scorer on our roster, in this draft at our pick, or in free agency (that we could realistically acquire) than Evan Fournier. If we lose Evan Fournier for nothing, we get worse. 

I too am optimistic about the development of our young players. But none of the three guys you mentioned have shown the ability to do what Fournier does. Chuma Okeke hasn't shown anything. I love the idea of Okeke, I think a healthy Okeke is more valuable than a top 10 pick in this draft. But until he touches an NBA basketball we can't reasonably predict he'll be able to replace Fourniers shooting or shot creation. 

I'm as high on Fultz as anybody. I think if he can be a better perimeter shooter, both catch and shoot and then, more importantly, off the dribble he can be an All Star. But he needs space to play in and Evan is one of about 3 guys on our roster who has a jumper worthy of attracting perimeter defenders and providing space. 

I think Isaac is a long shot to be a great offensive player. He's not been an efficient offensive player with his low usage so just giving him more shots isn't going to help (unless he improves his handle and his jumper greatly, which he could do). But Isaac really doesn't need to be a top offensive player to be one of the most impactful players on the court. His defense does that. If he's healthy, he plays defense like he can and he hits 35% from 3, he's immediately our most important player. He can be a guy you run no plays for and he still gets 15 points. And then can play some of the best defense in the league on the other end. But asking him to replace the offense Evan provides will almost certainly not go well.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

    Of course it will be hard to replace Evan, but this  is more telling of the organization then anything. 

Where are the promising second rounders or G league shooters? We neither acquire them or draft them. On many teams you can see a developmental player or two who has a chance to shine if he gets minutes. Not on the Magic. It's been the guys we drafted in the first round or bust....mostly bust since we traded away 3 huge pieces for crap.Again hate to sound like a broken record but many of the fans saw this outcome years ago. People been saying for half a decade a team can't be good if Vucevic and Evan are your best players. It didn't come out of the blue and it's not hindsight. Low and behold since we traded Tobias both of them have have been our two leading scorers or close to it every year as well as our two highest paid players. If someone wanted Evan to opt out just to move past this era i could understand it. I get it. It's been a long mediocre run and honestly except for the Dipo/Sabonis trade it's been pretty easy to predict. No hindsight needed. 

TL;DR  It will be hard to replace Evan but maybe it's time to let him go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anybody seen confirmation that Fultz has reported and is going through safety protocol?

I know he didn’t arrive with the rest of the team because of a family matter. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, MagicFanDan said:

Has anybody seen confirmation that Fultz has reported and is going through safety protocol?

I know he didn’t arrive with the rest of the team because of a family matter. 

    His mother is probably not allowing him to go. Honestly though, i hope he is alright. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hootie249 said:

    Of course it will be hard to replace Evan, but this  is more telling of the organization then anything. 

Where are the promising second rounders or G league shooters? We neither acquire them or draft them. On many teams you can see a developmental player or two who has a chance to shine if he gets minutes. Not on the Magic. It's been the guys we drafted in the first round or bust....mostly bust since we traded away 3 huge pieces for crap.Again hate to sound like a broken record but many of the fans saw this outcome years ago. People been saying for half a decade a team can't be good if Vucevic and Evan are your best players. It didn't come out of the blue and it's not hindsight. Low and behold since we traded Tobias both of them have have been our two leading scorers or close to it every year as well as our two highest paid players. If someone wanted Evan to opt out just to move past this era i could understand it. I get it. It's been a long mediocre run and honestly except for the Dipo/Sabonis trade it's been pretty easy to predict. No hindsight needed. 

TL;DR  It will be hard to replace Evan but maybe it's time to let him go.

There hasn't been a single second round pick selected since Weltman and Hammond took over that could actually replace Evan Fournier. There are some that could be decent players (emphasis on could, I can't see any that are currently starting on a decent team from a quick glance). But the second round is such a crap shoot, its unfair in my opinion to say "this management is terrible, where are our second round picks or G League guys that are successful?" Because most organisations don't hit on the majority of G League or 2nd round guys. Iwundu wasn't a bad pick. I think he was worth a shot, I'll be surprised if he's back next year on anything but a minimum deal but I think he's been ok for a second round guy. Khem Birch was a summer league guy who got a second contract with us. 

I'm not saying I want Vuc and Fournier as our best players. (I actually think Gordon and Isaac are better players than Fournier, just not better scorers). But the thing is real big time scorers don't grow on trees. Scorers good enough to lead you to a high playoff seed and beyond are literally the most coveted asset in basketball. It's not like we've passed on a bunch of those guys because we like Vuc and Fournier better (except for I suppose Oladipo which happened before Weltman took over). 

To be clear, I want change too. I don't want us to give Fournier a new 4 year deal and bring back this exact core for the foreseeable future. Far from it. But if he opts out we lose him for nothing and get worse with no long term benefit. If we trade him, either in the off-season or at next season's deadline (and there's definitely an argument about the risk vs reward of waiting until the deadline), we can add players that might better fit or assets that could make us better in the long run. Or maybe we keep Evan and trade Gordon, or trade Vuc. I know we need a shake up but I just think we shouldn't pretend that Evan Fournier is a bad basketball player who's somehow the problem with our team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To change gear a bit, thinking about potential free agents we could buy low on, someone like Denzel Valentine might be worth kicking the tyres on if the indication is that Chicago won't resign him. He's had some injuries, missing all of last season, which may have affected his numbers this year but he's a decent jump shooter and a good passer for his size. He could still be a good bench player and he probably wouldn't cost much. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a zoom conference with Bamba on the Magics site and holy crap does he look huge. Says he weighed in this morning at 252 lbs. Still feels comfortable running, jumping and moving laterally. 

Would love for him to have an impact in these 12-15 games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

Would love for him to have an impact in these 12-15 games. 

I would love to and I've always wanted to wait on him, the potential is here, there're also question marks, but only time will tell. A lot of time I've seen proposal to trade him, but his value is not that high, so I would gladly take the wait and see approach with him. A little more playing time would probably help, but until Vuc is there...

That lead to the Fournier discussion, and while I agree on a lot of things you wrote, for me the most important thing is the "we need to change", we weren't going nowhere with that team, and our cap space situation, that was not that important in the opinion of a few of us, it's going to be even worst after all that happened and a sure decrease in the future cap limits.

We've talked that to exhaustion, it's not like Vuc, Evan, or even Ross and DJ are not good players, they are, and they could surely be great pieces in the right environment. But you can't build a project on them as leaders/best players, and considering how average we were, I always supported the addiction by substraction theory, give the young group more time and responsibility, and they'll pay you back in the long term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

Fultz has arrived in the bubble.

How long does he have to quarantine before he’s allowed to start to practicing with the team? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×