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Fultz4thewin

2019-2020 Official Regular Season Thread

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Just now, Magicman28 said:

I won’t disagree. 
 

Hands up is elementary. How guys get into the league not knowing or doing this is beyond me. I learned that at 10.

That is what I mean. He has played too long not to know that by now. 

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2 minutes ago, LaVar said:

That is what I mean. He has played too long not to know that by now. 

Yeah but we’re still talking about elite level talent being in the NBA and he really didn’t play a whole lot last year. Like you said, Vuch has been around a minute and just started getting it a couple years ago. Big men take a little longer too and who knows maybe that foot bothers him at times.

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2 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

I won’t disagree. 
 

Hands up is elementary. How guys get into the league not knowing or doing this is beyond me. I learned that at 10.

Considering every center on the team does that I think they're probably coached not to do it. 

I want to say our own ML6 had Robbins ask Clifford about this through the lens of pick and roll coverage the other day and Clifford said they're playing it exactly how they're supposed to play it. 

So I think it's to avoid fouling? 

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27 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Yeah but we’re still talking about elite level talent being in the NBA and he really didn’t play a whole lot last year. Like you said, Vuch has been around a minute and just started getting it a couple years ago. Big men take a little longer too and who knows maybe that foot bothers him at times.

good  point. I guess my issue is more that he came in as a defender. 

When vuc had more problems on defense, he still did other things to be effective like rebound and hit shots. 

He was never labelled a defender.

Mo was labelled a defender coming out. 

therefore, Mo was suppose to bring defense as a starting point and I am looking for it. I think that maybe my issue.

 

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5 minutes ago, Fultz4thewin said:

Considering every center on the team does that I think they're probably coached not to do it. 

I want to say our own ML6 had Robbins ask Clifford about this through the lens of pick and roll coverage the other day and Clifford said they're playing it exactly how they're supposed to play it. 

So I think it's to avoid fouling? 

but it is high hands. not just sticking your hand out. High hands to prevent rip through and cheap calls. 

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19 minutes ago, Fultz4thewin said:

Considering every center on the team does that I think they're probably coached not to do it. 

I want to say our own ML6 had Robbins ask Clifford about this through the lens of pick and roll coverage the other day and Clifford said they're playing it exactly how they're supposed to play it. 

So I think it's to avoid fouling? 

Probably. Shows how ****ty the NBA officiating has become.

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22 minutes ago, Fultz4thewin said:

Considering every center on the team does that I think they're probably coached not to do it. 

I want to say our own ML6 had Robbins ask Clifford about this through the lens of pick and roll coverage the other day and Clifford said they're playing it exactly how they're supposed to play it. 

So I think it's to avoid fouling? 

Kinda. My question was more about Vooch/Bamba seeming to back up, back up, back up, and never commit to stepping up in the PnR coverage to slow down the driver.  Guards with good floaters (Trae, Luka for example) seem to just walk into the lane and get 5 feet from the front of the rim over and over again without a center realizing "I need to step up now, I can't back up anymore". 

So my intention with that question was moreso about body positioning and committing to claiming defensive space in the lane.  But I don't know how Josh asked it or if Cliff interpreted it as a high hands question.

I personally agree that having one's hands up or out is fundamental in defensive scenarios like that.  So if they're teaching hands down I would be similarly baffled because I don't think there's good rationale for that.  I agree avoiding fouling would be the hypothetical Clifford concern, but the benefit of that doesn't seem to outweigh the higher quality of easy looks you're giving the opponent -- in my estimation at least.

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12 minutes ago, LaVar said:

but it is high hands. not just sticking your hand out. High hands to prevent rip through and cheap calls. 

I get what he’s saying though. High hands still lead to fouls because shot blockers are going to contest either way and nowadays, there’s no consistency in officiating.

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17 minutes ago, LaVar said:

good  point. I guess my issue is more that he came in as a defender. 

When vuc had more problems on defense, he still did other things to be effective like rebound and hit shots. 

He was never labelled a defender.

Mo was labelled a defender coming out. 

therefore, Mo was suppose to bring defense as a starting point and I am looking for it. I think they maybe my issue.

 

Yeah but that’s college. We’re on a another level now. The 1%.

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5 minutes ago, ML6 said:

Kinda. My question was more about Vooch/Bamba seeming to back up, back up, back up, and never commit to stepping up in the PnR coverage to slow down the driver.  Guards with good floaters (Trae, Luka for example) seem to just walk into the lane and get 5 feet from the front of the rim over and over again without a center realizing "I need to step up now, I can't back up anymore". 

So my intention with that question was moreso about body positioning and committing to claiming defensive space in the lane.  But I don't know how Josh asked it or if Cliff interpreted it as a high hands question.

I personally agree that having one's hands up or out is fundamental in defensive scenarios like that.  So if they're teaching hands down I would be similarly baffled because I don't think there's good rational for that.  I agree avoiding fouling would be the hypothetical Clifford concern, but the benefit of that doesn't seem to outweigh the higher quality of easy looks you're giving the opponent -- in my estimation at least.

It is situational as well. Post play vs wing play. Off ball vs  on ball. Live dribble vs killed dribble. So if mo is on the ball with live dribble wing than you can dont have highs.  It is more mid hand and Hands are pumbs up and out to the SIDE to get into passing lane, but if you are off ball like mo is he needs to be high and wide. Be big in the paint. Active in and out of the lane. Hands ready for blocks. 

It does matter the situation. Not all defense i best hands up. Mo just plays a position were it is done more than a wing vs the dribble. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, ML6 said:

Kinda. My question was more about Vooch/Bamba seeming to back up, back up, back up, and never commit to stepping up in the PnR coverage to slow down the driver.  Guards with good floaters (Trae, Luka for example) seem to just walk into the lane and get 5 feet from the front of the rim over and over again without a center realizing "I need to step up now, I can't back up anymore". 

So my intention with that question was moreso about body positioning and committing to claiming defensive space in the lane.  But I don't know how Josh asked it or if Cliff interpreted it as a high hands question.

I personally agree that having one's hands up or out is fundamental in defensive scenarios like that.  So if they're teaching hands down I would be similarly baffled because I don't think there's good rationale for that.  I agree avoiding fouling would be the hypothetical Clifford concern, but the benefit of that doesn't seem to outweigh the higher quality of easy looks you're giving the opponent -- in my estimation at least.

It just happens too often to be a coincidence. It's not like Bamba or Vucevic contest sometimes and don't contest other times. They contest everything at the rim but they never contest the mid range. Never. Not once. I think it's by design. 

I agree that it's not what I would do. But "don't foul" is a pillar of Clifford's coaching philosophy so I wouldn't be surprised if it's taught that way. 

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I’m for one not sold on Bamba and think if someone values him we should at least listen. He has no post game, low energy, slow reacting and a below average shot. Defense should be automatic with his size; yet it isn’t. He’s a project to even be a role player. His song is even lousy. He screams overrated for #6 drafting position, possibly injury prone. The eye test for him is very bad. He really needs to start showing something, anything real soon. 

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