2019 Preseason Thread

[magicblue]

My thoughts:

The MCW/Fultz experiment in the backcourt should be abandoned. Neither can shoot, nor want to shoot, and you can't have that from both backcourt players at the same time. If Fultz was starting we'd be bringing Augustine off the bench and MCW could later sub for Fournier, which would at least keep one shooter in the PG/SG spot and give us better balance.

Vuc is playing like a guy who just signed a nice big contract. Terrible decision making/passing and watching guys as they score layups at the basket. Non-contract year Vuc is not going to work for us the way this team is built. The trouble is our half court offense looks terrible when he's not out there.

AG/Fournier/Vuc have to show up and play every night in order for us to be successful and that has not been happening the past few games. I hope we're just not interested because its pre-season but this is not the way we should be approaching the season, we're just not good enough to expect to turn things on once the games count.

Not worried about Fultz. As long as he stays healthy I believe it will come

[TRoss43]

9 hours ago, TheNameIsOrlando said:

Butler was 25 when he broke out. Gordon is 24. Relax...

Also that starting lineup is awful.

That starting lineup is awful...why? MCW is a facilitator vs Fournier who is not. I assume Bamba over AG is a hangup for you? We don't need our 4/5 guys dribbling all over the court and trying to play like a 1/2. I'm afraid next year you will say Gordon is 25...Relax and on and on. He's had plenty of time to show consistency on offense. He hasn't and i'm just pointing out the obvious.

[Bauncey Chillups]

What the hell happened to Gordon the last 3 pre-season games? Just fell off completely. I agree that MCW and Fultz shouldn't be on the court together since the floor gets really tiny. Iwundu at the 3 is a much better fit since he'll at least let it fly from deep. Fultz right now is more or less a taller Briscoe with better passing which is fine for the short-term but he's got a long way to go. 

 

Kind of worried about Bamba achieving anything past being a solid bench big. Great jumper so he'll always be valuable but his motor on defense and rebounding is unacceptable.

[Fultz4thewin]

20 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Yeah I’m not going to put much emphasis on preseason performances. Just on Fultz and how he’s feeling after each game and young guys.

However I do feel that we are at a point where we know what AG is. 

I'm not sure we know what Gordon is based on the preseason. I need a few weeks of regular season performance to confirm that. 

That Detroit game was still really eye opening. 

When he's interested in going after the shots that require more effort but are more advantageous to him he's really really really good. But he spends so much time taking step back threes which is just pointless. 

[Fultz4thewin]

12 minutes ago, Bauncey Chillups said:

What the hell happened to Gordon the last 3 pre-season games? Just fell off completely. I agree that MCW and Fultz shouldn't be on the court together since the floor gets really tiny. Iwundu at the 3 is a much better fit since he'll at least let it fly from deep. Fultz right now is more or less a taller Briscoe with better passing which is fine for the short-term but he's got a long way to go. 

 

Kind of worried about Bamba achieving anything past being a solid bench big. Great jumper so he'll always be valuable but his motor on defense and rebounding is unacceptable.

The best version of Gordon requires a lot of high energy movement. 

When Gordon plays poorly it's usually because he's just being lazy. 

[Fultz4thewin]

30 minutes ago, TRoss43 said:

That starting lineup is awful...why? MCW is a facilitator vs Fournier who is not. I assume Bamba over AG is a hangup for you? We don't need our 4/5 guys dribbling all over the court and trying to play like a 1/2. I'm afraid next year you will say Gordon is 25...Relax and on and on. He's had plenty of time to show consistency on offense. He hasn't and i'm just pointing out the obvious.

There's a lot of empirical evidence that shows this would be an incredibly terrible idea

[Magicman28]

1 minute ago, ?4thewin said:

I'm not sure we know what Gordon is based on the preseason. I need a few weeks of regular season performance to confirm that. 

That Detroit game was still really eye opening. 

When he's interested in going after the shots that require more effort but are more advantageous to him he's really really really good. But he spends so much time taking step back threes which is just pointless. 

Not preseason but over the course...Just not that guy who you can give the ball to night in night out to carry. 
 

That Detroit game everything was going in. Problem is when shots aren’t falling, the player AG is trying to be, finds other ways to get points. That’s where he’s limited at.

[Fultz4thewin]

11 hours ago, TRoss43 said:

Still no go-to guy. I hoped AG was going to develop into a "Jimmy Butler" type guy for Magic. I think I've seen enough now to realize he's probably always gonna be a great athlete with  erratic offensive tools except dunking. I think Fournier, AG and Ross are going to be a continued hinderance to total team cohesiveness on offense. I would like to see DJ, MCW, JI, Bamba and Vuc start given our current roster. Put Fultz, Fournier, Ross, AG and KB on the 2nd group. We know Vuc/Fournier together is slow and slower 2-man offense. If we don't do something to fix that dynamic, the offense will be underwhelming for long stretches in far too many games. Our 2nd unit has a chance to be good but Clifford needs to reign Ross in and remind him that he actually has some guys around him now that can score. It's very frustrating to watch a Heat team with 1 go-to guy and a bunch of slappies, move the ball and execute an offense that is cohesive and gets open looks continuously.

Let's go through all of the ways this would be a bad idea. 

1. Fournier, Gordon, and Ross aren't a hindrance to our offense. Lineups with those 3 together were positive last year.

2. Fournier is a better facilitator than MCW. 

3. Bamba can't play 4. 

4. Bamba Vuc lineups were our worst offensive lineups and our worst defensive lineups last year. 

5. MCW shouldn't play major minutes because he's a detriment to the offense unless he's playing in high level defensive lineups that score out of the defense. 

6. Your rotation removes aminu who has been really good this preseason. 

7. Clifford doesn't need to reign Ross in because Clifford is the one telling Ross to play like that. He played like this last year and played very efficiently. 

[Just a regular Magic fan]

19 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

The best version of Gordon requires a lot of high energy movement. 

When Gordon plays poorly it's usually because he's just being lazy. 

I agree. There is nothing wrong with being a high energy guy who is our best defender and on offense gets his points off of cleanups, and behind the arc. I am sure he is excited to try out some of the moves McGrady taught him, but shooting from the high post or elbow isn't one of his strengths. Naturally, I hope the light comes on for him, and he suddenly becomes an offensive monster, but the only way I see it is if he just sticks to shooting 3's. That's one area I think he has improved on. Besides, what's wrong with being a 3 and D guy? Everybody should understand their role.

[Magicman28]

47 minutes ago, Just a regular Magic fan said:

I agree. There is nothing wrong with being a high energy guy who is our best defender and on offense gets his points off of cleanups, and behind the arc. I am sure he is excited to try out some of the moves McGrady taught him, but shooting from the high post or elbow isn't one of his strengths. Naturally, I hope the light comes on for him, and he suddenly becomes an offensive monster, but the only way I see it is if he just sticks to shooting 3's. That's one area I think he has improved on. Besides, what's wrong with being a 3 and D guy? Everybody should understand their role.

There’s nothing wrong with him attempting those shots. Probably signifies who he is. You can’t give him the ball and depend on him if shots aren’t falling. If shots are falling great. You get the Detroit game. If not, you get meh.

[Fultz4thewin]

41 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

There’s nothing wrong with him attempting those shots. Probably signifies who he is. You can’t give him the ball and depend on him if shots aren’t falling. If shots are falling great. You get the Detroit game. If not, you get meh.

I don't think your analysis is correct. He wasn't good because his shots were falling. He was attacking guys off the dribble and getting to the rim. 

That's the type of Gordon we need and I think you'd agree. Taking bigs off the dribble. Posting up guards. Cutting off ball. Shooting open threes off of kick outs. 

[TRoss43]

2 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

There's a lot of empirical evidence that shows this would be an incredibly terrible idea

I don't think the evidence is empirical at all. Have you witnessed this lineup playing together for an extended period? Do you think the current starting lineup doesn't have empirical evidence suggesting that it's topped out? Should we play it straight and work hard for the 8th seed again because that will be the eventual outcome if we change nothing. I did forget about Aminu. Start him in place of AG and move Bamba back to 2nd unit. How do you think that would work?