2019 Preseason Thread

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

Carson Edwards damn

[LaVar 108]

1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

NAW doesn't really project to be a shot creation guy. He's more of a ball mover. You aren't running your offense through him. 

Analytics love okeke. 

Fivethirtyeight had okeke as the 12th best player in the draft, NAW 19th. 

Kevin Pelton had okeke 8th and NAW 20th. 

 

Obviously these are projections not gospel. 

And it's not like NAW is going to be a bad player. 

 

But there's objective reasons to think okeke has the upside to be a top 10 player in this draft. Super efficient on offense, super effective on defense, smart, can pass/dribble/shoot. 

There isn't really any reason to be against that pick other than his position. But that might not even be an issue in a year

We will see 

[ML6 520]

If we're going to have this hypothetical "I can't believe the Magic didn't draft this guy" discussion, I would submit my entry as Matisse Thybulle.  Not that I'd necessarily rather have him over Okeke, but just that he seems like the prototypical WeltHam guy (which, in fairness, Okeke is too).  I had a suspicion they might try to trade for him at the draft. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

30 minutes ago, ML6 said:

If we're going to have this hypothetical "I can't believe the Magic didn't draft this guy" discussion, I would submit my entry as Matisse Thybulle.  Not that I'd necessarily rather have him over Okeke, but just that he seems like the prototypical WeltHam guy (which, in fairness, Okeke is too).  I had a suspicion they might try to trade for him at the draft. 

My list was Clarke and Little and then like 15 other players around the same tier. 

If we drafted NAW I would have been fine with it because there's reasons to like his game and he's a fit. Same deal with Thybulle.

I just don't understand why people are suggesting it was a mistake to draft okeke when everything about his projection has him as a similarly talented player as (whoever you want to take up as your pick of choice). He's a really high floor player who should have reasonable expectations of being a typical 4th or 5th starter on a good team and upside to be something like an elite shooting elite bball IQ version of Marcus Morris. 

He has no weaknesses besides the fact that he sometimes struggles when switched onto guards. But it's not because he can't stay with them, it's because he has a habit of sometimes getting too high in his stance. Completely fixable. 

[ML6 520]

4 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

My list was Clarke and Little and then like 15 other players around the same tier. 

If we drafted NAW I would have been fine with it because there's reasons to like his game and he's a fit. Same deal with Thybulle.

I just don't understand why people are suggesting it was a mistake to draft okeke when everything about his projection has him as a similarly talented player as (whoever you want to take up as your pick of choice). He's a really high floor player who should have reasonable expectations of being a typical 4th or 5th starter on a good team and upside to be something like an elite shooting elite bball IQ version of Marcus Morris. 

He has no weaknesses besides the fact that he sometimes struggles when switched onto guards. But it's not because he can't stay with them, it's because he has a habit of sometimes getting too high in his stance. Completely fixable. 

It's solely because he's not able to play right now.  The jump in logic is that people can see what an active player is doing, therefore it is concrete, while Okeke must just be bad because he is invisible at the moment.  Nothing more; it's a logical fallacy.  Not to mention the preseason hot takes.  There's a tweet linked on reddit where apparently an NBA GM said that Herro is untouchable in Beal discussions because the Heat "think they have the next Klay Thompson". lol

[LaVar 108]

1 minute ago, ?4thewin said:

My list was Clarke and Little and then like 15 other players around the same tier. 

If we drafted NAW I would have been fine with it because there's reasons to like his game and he's a fit. Same deal with Thybulle.

I just don't understand why people are suggesting it was a mistake to draft okeke when everything about his projection has him as a similarly talented player as (whoever you want to take up as your pick of choice). He's a really high floor player who should have reasonable expectations of being a typical 4th or 5th starter on a good team and upside to be something like an elite shooting elite bball IQ version of Marcus Morris. 

I am personally not a fan of his game and we have players that do what he does already. His skill set does not fill a need for the team. If you have 2 players in the same tier you pick the player that has the better fit or feels a need. The issue is that some believe that okeke is a higher tier than NAW. That is were I disagree. I also believe our gm doesn't put a premium on certain skill sets like playmaking. I believe we missed out on NAW and time will tell.

There is a reason playingmaking is an issue on this team. We dont invest in this area. 

 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

37 minutes ago, LaVar said:

I am personally not a fan of his game and we have players that do what he does already. His skill set does not fill a need for the team. If you have 2 players in the same tier you pick the player that has the better fit or feels a need. The issue is that some believe that okeke is a higher tier than NAW. That is were I disagree. I also believe our gm doesn't put a premium on certain skill sets like playmaking. I believe we missed out on NAW and time will tell.

There is a reason playingmaking is an issue on this team. We dont invest in this area. 

 

How can you predict what our needs are though? Toronto had no need for siakam as they had just invested in Patterson and Ibaka. Now siakam is their most important player. 

What exactly do you think NAW is going to be in the NBA?

[JJZFL 618]

2 hours ago, ML6 said:

It's solely because he's not able to play right now.  The jump in logic is that people can see what an active player is doing, therefore it is concrete, while Okeke must just be bad because he is invisible at the moment.  Nothing more; it's a logical fallacy.  Not to mention the preseason hot takes.  There's a tweet linked on reddit where apparently an NBA GM said that Herro is untouchable in Beal discussions because the Heat "think they have the next Klay Thompson". lol

Anytime someone has a significant injury, there are always legitimate questions as to whether they will come back at 100% of what they were, and what the potential might be for re- injury.   These concerns are magnified in a young player where you have the additional question as to whether the injury may affect his future potential. So I think some concerns are justified, and there’s more to it than the logical fallacy you mention in your post.  

[ML6 520]

6 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

Anytime someone has a significant injury, there are always legitimate questions as to whether they will come back at 100% of what they were, and what the potential might be for re- injury.   These concerns are magnified in a young player where you have the additional question as to whether the injury may affect his future potential. So I think some concerns are justified, and there’s more to it than the logical fallacy you mention in your post.  

Concerning the injury itself and the downstream effects, yes I'd agree with you.  It seemed that the discussion at hand was mainly focusing on the characteristics of the players' skillsets irrespective of the injury itself, so that's what I was addressing.  I was largely ignoring his injury in that context but in the real world it certainly has an impact, yes.

[Magicpassion 4]

Why can’t we ever find these shooters? The last one that comes to mind is JJ Reddick. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

How come whenever anyone is describing "the next..." They always go for the extreme outlier example. 

Herro is going to be a great shooter. But why compare him to Klay? Arguably the best shooting SG of all time. What makes him more Klay than Joe Harris? Or Danny Green?

Same deal with Garland. It's always "the next Lillard". Why not the next Patty Mills?

Or Morant, "the next Iverson". 

 

I went back and looked at the response to Josh Jackson's rookie preseason and Earl Watson called him "Kawhi on defense with the offensive game speed of Westbrook". 

[ML6 520]

6 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

How come whenever anyone is describing "the next..." They always go for the extreme outlier example. 

Herro is going to be a great shooter. But why compare him to Klay? Arguably the best shooting SG of all time. What makes him more Klay than Joe Harris? Or Danny Green?

Same deal with Garland. It's always "the next Lillard". Why not the next Patty Mills?

Or Morant, "the next Iverson". 

 

I went back and looked at the response to Josh Jackson's rookie preseason and Earl Watson called him "Kawhi on defense with the offensive game speed of Westbrook". 

Simmons just tweeted that Thybulle is "already the most destructive non-Kawhi perimeter defender in the league".  These preseason takes.