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2019 Preseason Thread

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3 minutes ago, LaVar said:

When I say lack of Effort (for a big man), I mean this: I dont see the active hands, Showing big in the paint getting deflections and quick on rotation. When you close out or rotate, your hand is not high. You just through throw your hand low to cover there eyes (what?).  (he gave up a three this way last game.) You dont challenge shots like that when you are 7'1. I dont see you beating your man to the spot on the low post block.  I dont see you beating your man on the break to get dunks. Rotations are slow. Second effort on rebounds are not there. You dont achieve hassle stats like blocks, steals/deflections, rebounds and block outs (giving up rebounds).

What people need to remember. Mo bamba beat john wall and russell westbrooks in the speed test in the draft combine. There is no reason he cant beat the other big in transition constantly, if he had the motor. These are the things I watch for on the tape. 

He did great in game 2. He was horrible in game 3.

This^

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12 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I dunno. He was great the first two games. Last night the entire team came out flat. 

Don't know if he was really an issue last night in particular. Fernando did get an offensive rebound over him which is probably fair to criticise him for. I'm just not sure you can call his entire play low effort. Maybe in the first half. Not the second though. 

It's not really fair to use Isaac as a benchmark though. 

Maybe not Isaac, because Isaac is just better on defense, but Kim. That is a good benchmark, because Mo has better tools and talent. Kim just beats him in effort and discipline.

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7 minutes ago, LaVar said:

When I say lack of Effort (for a big man), I mean this: I dont see the active hands, Showing big in the paint getting deflections and quick on rotation. When you close out or rotate, your hand is not high. You just through throw your hand low to cover there eyes (what?).  (he gave up a three this way last game.) You dont challenge shots like that when you are 7'1. I dont see you beating your man to the spot on the low post block.  I dont see you beating your man on the break to get dunks. Rotations are slow. Second effort on rebounds are not there. You dont achieve hassle stats like blocks, steals/deflections, rebounds and block outs (giving up rebounds).

What people need to remember. Mo bamba beat john wall and russell westbrooks in the speed test in the draft combine. There is no reason he cant beat the other big in transition constantly, if he had the motor. These are the things I watch for on the tape. 

He did great in game 2. He was horrible in game 3.

Again I haven't watched a preaseason game so forgive me if this isn't the case but being out of position or slow to the spot can also be an indication of not understanding where to be or how to read what is going on (young player issue not lack of effort).

Having your hands up on the perimeter is an asy way to get beat with a pumpfake provided the offensive player still has a dribble. This is also how 99% of basketball players defend a jumpshot. 

Bamba also led our team in blocks last year until he was hurt.

All of this just seems overblown. These same things were said last year and everyone wanted to trade him. Preseason game 2 comes around and it's all praises and someone on here even mentions something to the effect of "do you guys still want to trade bamba? What a game!"

Let's give him some time and not be so quick to react game in and game out. He's young he is going to be inconsistent from game to game. 

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14 minutes ago, LaVar said:

Maybe not Isaac, because Isaac is just better on defense, but Kim. That is a good benchmark, because Mo has better tools and talent. Kim just beats him in effort and discipline.

Birch has to beat every player in the league in hustle because he lacks talent. If it wasn't for his hustle he'd be out of the league. Comparing any player to Birch is weird because that is literally Birch's only skill. 

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14 minutes ago, LaVar said:

When I say lack of Effort (for a big man), I mean this: I dont see the active hands, Showing big in the paint getting deflections and quick on rotation. When you close out or rotate, your hand is not high. You just through throw your hand low to cover there eyes (what?).  (he gave up a three this way last game.) You dont challenge shots like that when you are 7'1. I dont see you beating your man to the spot on the low post block.  I dont see you beating your man on the break to get dunks. Rotations are slow. Second effort on rebounds are not there. You dont achieve hassle stats like blocks, steals/deflections, rebounds and block outs (giving up rebounds).

What people need to remember. Mo bamba beat john wall and russell westbrooks in the speed test in the draft combine. There is no reason he cant beat the other big in transition constantly, if he had the motor. These are the things I watch for on the tape. 

He did great in game 2. He was horrible in game 3.

He rates really well in steals, blocks, and deflections though. And gross rebounding numbers are going to be tough for him playing in lineups with two of Isaac, Gordon, and aminu always on the floor. You see the same thing with Vucevic. 

Looking back there was that couple minute stretch with the Fernando putback and a bembry lob that he probably could have picked a better angle on. So I think the perception of his effort has a lot to do with a 4 minute bad stretch. He was a lot better in the second half though (as was the entire team so I bet Clifford got after them at half). 

I wonder how much this has to do with our ridiculous preseason schedule with 3 away games every other night. He's already on a minute restriction. Evan and iwundu are already getting rest. 

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12 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

He rates really well in steals, blocks, and deflections though. And gross rebounding numbers are going to be tough for him playing in lineups with two of Isaac, Gordon, and aminu always on the floor. You see the same thing with Vucevic. 

Looking back there was that couple minute stretch with the Fernando putback and a bembry lob that he probably could have picked a better angle on. So I think the perception of his effort has a lot to do with a 4 minute bad stretch. He was a lot better in the second half though (as was the entire team so I bet Clifford got after them at half). 

I wonder how much this has to do with our ridiculous preseason schedule with 3 away games every other night. He's already on a minute restriction. Evan and iwundu are already getting rest. 

he only played 16min. This was 25% of his time on the court. (4mins)

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20 minutes ago, TheNameIsOrlando said:

Birch has to beat every player in the league in hustle because he lacks talent. If it wasn't for his hustle he'd be out of the league. Comparing any player to Birch is weird because that is literally Birch's only skill. 

he blocks rebounds and can shoot. I would not discount birch. 

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27 minutes ago, TheNameIsOrlando said:

Again I haven't watched a preaseason game so forgive me if this isn't the case but being out of position or slow to the spot can also be an indication of not understanding where to be or how to read what is going on (young player issue not lack of effort).

Having your hands up on the perimeter is an asy way to get beat with a pumpfake provided the offensive player still has a dribble. This is also how 99% of basketball players defend a jumpshot. 

Bamba also led our team in blocks last year until he was hurt.

All of this just seems overblown. These same things were said last year and everyone wanted to trade him. Preseason game 2 comes around and it's all praises and someone on here even mentions something to the effect of "do you guys still want to trade bamba? What a game!"

Let's give him some time and not be so quick to react game in and game out. He's young he is going to be inconsistent from game to game. 

Lets see you watch the game first. I know what I am talking about. Vuch had the same issue with low hands and now he has done better. Low hands allow offensive players to do rip through and get dumb fouls on you. it also slows down your ability to challenge a shot. hand down man down. 

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10 minutes ago, LaVar said:

he only played 16min. This was 25% of his time on the court. (4mins)

It's still 4 minutes though. 

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On 10/8/2019 at 9:40 AM, ?4thewin said:

This is a pretty shallow comparison. And I think you completely misevaluate why Payton struggles.

Payton didn't fail because he couldn't shoot. Payton failed because he couldn't shoot, was statistically the worst pick and roll defender in the league, and his offensive output waxed and waned where he'd have weeks where he'd be great followed by long stretches where he'd produce like a backup. He was timid and tentative far too often. 

It's been 2 games and while a fultz who can shoot is preferable to one that can't his success isn't going to be defined by his three point shooting, it's going to be entirely based on his ability to get to the rim and draw a second defender. So far it seems like he's going to be proficient enough at that. 

After 3 games of pre-season...if you were told you had to cut 1 of 3 players that include DJ, MCW and Fultz, which one would it be? No context...no extrapolation...just results that you've seen from each. I want to believe in Fultz but I'm not seeing what a lot of folks on here are with him. Even if I took his 3 point shooting, which is obviously abysmal right now, I just don't see all this athleticism and fluidity with the ball in his hands. What am I missing?

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6 minutes ago, TRoss43 said:

After 3 games of pre-season...if you were told you had to cut 1 of 3 players that include DJ, MCW and Fultz, which one would it be? No context...no extrapolation...just results that you've seen from each. I want to believe in Fultz but I'm not seeing what a lot of folks on here are with him. Even if I took his 3 point shooting, which is obviously abysmal right now, I just don't see all this athleticism and fluidity with the ball in his hands. What am I missing?

You really don't see athleticism and fluidity?

Athleticism 

Fluidity

 

Athleticism and fluidity

Fluidity

Athleticism

 

Bonus: passing vision

And I wish I had more clips of his passing because it's very likely he's the best passer on the team. 

He's got a quick first step and stop/start ability that creates a ton of space against defenders. 

And he's a good defensive player who does a really good job getting through screens. He's averaging 2 steals per game so far in the preseason. 

If we had to cut someone you'd cut MCW first. He's 28. He's a situational role player. We gave him a one year minimum contract for a reason. He's defense only and isn't likely to get better. 

Next you cut DJ because he's a 32 year old player on an expiring contract who doesn't fit our long term plans or our overall team building thesis. 

Fultz is 21 and would be an upgrade overall over MCW if all he can be is a backup and never got better than he is today. But he's also got the ingredients in his game that gives him franchise player upside and his ceiling is going to be dependent on his offensive efficiency. 

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