Jump to content
JJZFL

2019 Preseason Thread

Recommended Posts

26 minutes ago, Gordon MVP said:

Tyler Herro looks insane. I wonder if this is gonna be how he plays over the course of a real season. 

In some ways yes. He's going to be a very good shooter. 

But his gross stats are going to drop with a smaller role. 

If you look back through preseason rookie history it seems like shooters outplay their role pretty often. Grayson Allen averaged 13ppg last preseason. 5ppg during the season Bamba averaged 12 due to shooting 50% from 3. 6 ppg in regular season. 

Monk, Jackson, Frank Mason were at the top of preseason rookie scoring the previous year. significantly better than Simmons, Tatum, and fox. 

In 2016 Troy Williams led all rookies in scoring and Chriss was third due to hitting 38% of his threes.

Mudiay and Stanley Johnson led preseason scoring for their rookie class due to uncharacteristically good shooting. Hezonja was 7th. 

Tyler Johnson led his class in rookie scoring. Ennis, Andre Dawkins, shabazz, stauskas, and hairston were all in the top 10.

Jimmer led all rookies in scoring his year. 

Marcus Williams led his year

Charlie Villanueva led his year. 

My favorite one to show the opposite, LeBron was 16th in scoring his year. 7ppg that preseason. Giannis was similar his year too. 

 

I think there's a pattern of certain types of players that are technically proficient succeeding in preseason, while athletic based players look bad but that flips as soon as the season starts for some reason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll take a guess that Herro won't look quite as good when Isaac or Gordon switch onto him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gordon MVP said:

Tyler Herro looks insane. I wonder if this is gonna be how he plays over the course of a real season. 

This is what bothers me about the Magic. When was the last time we drafted a good scorer/shooter in the first round? I understand length and defense, but it’s frustrating how everyone we draft is a project on offense 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Captain said:

This is what bothers me about the Magic. When was the last time we drafted a good scorer/shooter in the first round? I understand length and defense, but it’s frustrating how everyone we draft is a project on offense 

Totally understandable that you feel that way. The front office will be judged harshly if it doesn't go well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Captain said:

This is what bothers me about the Magic. When was the last time we drafted a good scorer/shooter in the first round? I understand length and defense, but it’s frustrating how everyone we draft is a project on offense 

Would you have traded up for Herro at the time of the draft?  If not, it seems that 2 good preseason games has changed your opinion drastically?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Captain said:

This is what bothers me about the Magic. When was the last time we drafted a good scorer/shooter in the first round? I understand length and defense, but it’s frustrating how everyone we draft is a project on offense 

We drafted a good shooter 4 months ago. But to your point. Couple things. 

1. Without a franchise player level number 1 option on offense our only path toward success is building an elite defense and using that elite defense to improve our offense. Every team in the league scores worse against a half court set defense after the opponent makes a shot than they do when the opponent misses a shot. They score even better when the opponent turns the ball over. So we can build a pretty solid offense around creating misses and turnovers on defense. 

2. Very soon it's very likely that our best player is probably going to be Isaac. The best way to get the best out of Isaac is to surround him with other good defenders with length which creates a multiplier with that length. Playing Isaac next to aminu or MCW makes Isaac a better defender. The biggest example of the multiplier effect and points 1 and 2 is how our offense flourished last season when we added MCW into the rotation (one of the worst offensive players in the NBA over the last decade). 

3. Posters here like to criticise hennigan for his results but they have no idea what caused him to get those results. We didn't have success under hennigan because, while he obtained a bunch of talent, he never committed to any style of play and drafted/signed a bunch of mismatched pieces. We collected athletes that lacked shooting and tried to supplement that with non-athletes who could shoot. We struggled with getting to the free throw line so we signed augustin and Jeff green who could get to the line but caused other issues. We struggled with rim protection so we traded for ibaka and signed biyombo with the thought process that they would somehow be able to cover for Vucevic. We traded oladipo specifically because at the time there was only a small gap between his and Fournier's projected values going forward but we lacked shooting and Evan could shoot. When building a roster you need to be beholden to a plan or else you end up with a disjointed roster trying to chase categorical improvements and end up wasting years by not putting your players in the best positions to succeed. 

4. Single bad defensive players in lineups is enough to cause your entire defense to fall apart. Augustin and Fournier aren't bad defensive players at all, they're limited but they play good team defense and are often about average in effectiveness depending on the matchup. But over the next 6 months we'll lose quite a few games solely because of a problematic matchup that makes either guy unplayable. That's with average but flawed defenders. What do you think would happen with a bad defender? Watch Phoenix with Booker this year. He's among the worst defensive players in the league. He's a pretty solid offensive player. They're surrounding him with several average to above average defensive players. What kind of success do you think they're going to have?

5. All that being said, you always make concessions with the plan when you find the right offensive guy. If harden decided he wanted to play here you don't refuse to get him just because he's a poor defender. But you don't make those concessions for role players. It doesn't make sense to destroy your style just to obtain an ok player that's not much better than someone else you could find for the minimum or spend a little more and find someone who can shoot without destroying your style of play. 

 

So basically, it shouldn't frustrate you that we don't draft players with specific skill sets that clash with our identity. We're better off sticking to our plan and will be more successful for it. We can't completely ignore shooting but we need to find players that can shoot while fitting in with our style of play. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Captain said:

This is what bothers me about the Magic. When was the last time we drafted a good scorer/shooter in the first round? I understand length and defense, but it’s frustrating how everyone we draft is a project on offense 

But who is to tell he will be successful. I mean, we drafted JJ reddick   and he was not really anything until after his 4-5 year in the league. 

We have Fournier and Ross who are both above this guy and He was selected above our selection. There was not really anyone else after him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys do realize okeke is a 39% three point shooter for his career on high volume who finished the season on a 15 game stretch where he shot 46% from 3 including a 5 made 3 performance in the SEC championship game against a team with NBA talent at his position. Right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

You guys do realize okeke is a 39% three point shooter for his career on high volume who finished the season on a 15 game stretch where he shot 46% from 3 including a 5 made 3 performance in the SEC championship game against a team with NBA talent at his position. Right?

Do you think Gordon/Issac/Aminu/Okeke will all be on this team next year?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

You guys do realize okeke is a 39% three point shooter for his career on high volume who finished the season on a 15 game stretch where he shot 46% from 3 including a 5 made 3 performance in the SEC championship game against a team with NBA talent at his position. Right?

So who does he replace?  Where does he fit? do we just play every body 20 minutes? That is NOT a winning strategy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, fan for too long 2 said:

So who does he replace?  Where does he fit? do we just play every body 20 minutes? That is NOT a winning strategy. 

He takes Aminu's minutes once we trade him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×