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2019 Preseason Thread

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7 hours ago, LaVar said:

He was giving a hypothetical. Of course you keep Fultz and development him. He needs to be the PG of the future.  The only thing holding him back is his lack of shooting. But MCW is the best defender on the team (Isaac is close) and DJ is the best shooter (Ross is close). MCW's contract is a deal.

I'm a pretty big MCW defender but the player fultz is today is better than the player MCW is today. 

That hypothetical is unfairly stacked against fultz because you're using nebulous criteria to create a situation where he's third place. 

You're giving fultz 3 preseason games worth of evaluation which is problematic to begin with (because look up and down our preseason team averages and tell me how many statistics are representative of what a player is projected to do this year) but you're looking at MCW and augustin through the context of their performance over the last few months of the previous season. 

If you were to remove all context and just judge all 3 by the preseason performances fultz isn't in third place. 

If you were to add in context and judge all 3 by more than the preseason you have to account for projections of improvement for fultz's numbers based on an increase of experience and you have to add in the context that MCW was out of the league and unwanted before we scooped him up to play a very important but well defined role and in that role he was among the least efficient offensive players in the NBA. Considerably less efficient than fultz in Philly. 

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25 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I'm a pretty big MCW defender but the player fultz is today is better than the player MCW is today. 

That hypothetical is unfairly stacked against fultz because you're using nebulous criteria to create a situation where he's third place. 

You're giving fultz 3 preseason games worth of evaluation which is problematic to begin with (because look up and down our preseason team averages and tell me how many statistics are representative of what a player is projected to do this year) but you're looking at MCW and augustin through the context of their performance over the last few months of the previous season. 

If you were to remove all context and just judge all 3 by the preseason performances fultz isn't in third place. 

If you were to add in context and judge all 3 by more than the preseason you have to account for projections of improvement for fultz's numbers based on an increase of experience and you have to add in the context that MCW was out of the league and unwanted before we scooped him up to play a very important but well defined role and in that role he was among the least efficient offensive players in the NBA. Considerably less efficient than fultz in Philly. 

I need fultz to do well, but I answered the question given. MCW and augustin are proven impact players for us. MCW has played the best behind ross and gordon the preseason. His impact is more than just numbers. Just like last year he make game winning plays. DJ has not done well this preseason, in limited minutes. But he is a vet and we know what he will do during the season. But I need to see more from fultz and I know i will. It will take time. 

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48 minutes ago, LaVar said:

MCW has played the best behind ross and gordon the preseason. His impact is more than just numbers.

If this is the argument, then Isaac would likely be 1st or 2nd (interchangeable with Gordon).  Isaac's defensive impact is immense and exciting. 

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6 minutes ago, ML6 said:

If this is the argument, then Isaac would likely be 1st or 2nd (interchangeable with Gordon).  Isaac's defensive impact is immense and exciting. 

I do love his defense

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58 minutes ago, LaVar said:

I need fultz to do well, but I answered the question given. MCW and augustin are proven impact players for us. MCW has played the best behind ross and gordon the preseason. His impact is more than just numbers. Just like last year he make game winning plays. DJ has not done well this preseason, in limited minutes. But he is a vet and we know what he will do during the season. But I need to see more from fultz and I know i will. It will take time. 

Isn’t this moving the hypothetical TRoss gave, though? You’re looking at MCW and Augustin’s whole body of work, while only looking at three games from Fultz, so the criteria isn’t equal for the players.

 

In general, I agree with you— we need to see this from Fultz in, you know, actual regular season games, but in TRoss’s original hypothetical, through these three games only, you’d have to cut Augustin. It kind of ruins the hypothetical to consider previous body of work because that puts Fultz at an automatic disadvantage and MCW/DJ at an automatic advantage.

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2 hours ago, LaVar said:

I need fultz to do well, but I answered the question given. MCW and augustin are proven impact players for us. MCW has played the best behind ross and gordon the preseason. His impact is more than just numbers. Just like last year he make game winning plays. DJ has not done well this preseason, in limited minutes. But he is a vet and we know what he will do during the season. But I need to see more from fultz and I know i will. It will take time. 

That wasn't the question given. The question was "if you were told you had to cut 1 of 3 players that include DJ, MCW and Fultz, which one would it be? No context...no extrapolation...just results that you've seen from each"

 

Again, you're picking and choosing when you want to add context or not. You can't use projections for augustin in this thought experiment but take fultz's play as a literal representation of his value. You either take the current production at face value or you afford everyone reasonable projections. You can't have it both ways. 

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1 hour ago, 3rd Quarter Collapse said:

Isn’t this moving the hypothetical TRoss gave, though? You’re looking at MCW and Augustin’s whole body of work, while only looking at three games from Fultz, so the criteria isn’t equal for the players.

 

In general, I agree with you— we need to see this from Fultz in, you know, actual regular season games, but in TRoss’s original hypothetical, through these three games only, you’d have to cut Augustin. It kind of ruins the hypothetical to consider previous body of work because that puts Fultz at an automatic disadvantage and MCW/DJ at an automatic advantage.

Your right. I did not pay attention to him saying only three games and that is it.

 

Fultz has shown flashes, good and bad. DJ has the best 3pt shooting and shooting numbers.  MCW would be the starter.  

?4thewin is right

It would be 

1) MCW

2) Fultz

3) DJ

But Fultz and DJ would be very close because DJ is the only one that has 3 point range at all. 

I would pick fultz for the playmaking and defense. Mostly for his size and he fits what the team is doing with defense, but the team would be left with no shooting option. 

 

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5 hours ago, LaVar said:

He needs to gun. It is preseason. They can suck on this smoke because I am launch every shot. No questions. No hesitation. If he initiated the offense and the ball swings back to him and he is open. Gun. If my man is 5 ft away. Gun. You have my permission.

 

Coach would yank you off the floor for gunning like that. He is playing as asked, and constantly working to put things in the coach had worked on. If he came in gunning, he better be shooting 50% overall and 40% from 3-pt., and even then he might get yanked if it’s detrimental to the team scheme and his job. I’m giving him a solid B+/A- so far.

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27 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said:

Coach would yank you off the floor for gunning like that. He is playing as asked, and constantly working to put things in the coach had worked on. If he came in gunning, he better be shooting 50% overall and 40% from 3-pt., and even then he might get yanked if it’s detrimental to the team scheme and his job. I’m giving him a solid B+/A- so far.

I don’t think he means to try and be like Curry and start shooting deep threes, but rather to shoot those open threes with confidence.

 

He passed up two wide open threes against the Pistons to drive inside for layups instead. He’s gotta shoot those and not be scared of the result, especially when it’s the preseason.

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9 hours ago, jmmagicfan said:

Coach would yank you off the floor for gunning like that. He is playing as asked, and constantly working to put things in the coach had worked on. If he came in gunning, he better be shooting 50% overall and 40% from 3-pt., and even then he might get yanked if it’s detrimental to the team scheme and his job. I’m giving him a solid B+/A- so far.

there is no way he is a A or b. C+ at best, if you are looking at the overall game. I do like his energy. I do like his defense. I do like his creative handle. BUT there has not been a B+ or A game yet. You need to set the bar a little higher. He has not arrived yet. There is a lot of work yet. I do like him being on the court, but he is not showing starter level play yet. 

If he was playing at B or A level,  their would be no question who the starter is for the team. For now, it is still DJ. Fultz has been ok. I would give him a C for effort, playmaking, and D. 

 

BTW, I dont think you know what the coaches plan for him is yet. During the flow of the game, I would think the coach would encourage him to shot when open. 

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