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Bauncey Chillups

2019 Offseason Thread

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1 hour ago, Franchise408 said:

Honestly, I think this is the reasoning behind getting Vuc back.

While I love the idea of having tons of cap space for a big free agent, who is that FA that would actually come to Orlando?

Historically, the Magic havent been a huge FA destination. We've mostly gotten big names well past their prime who are in the twilight of their career looking to retire, ala Ewing and Wilkins.

We have had a couple exceptions where we have gotten the big FA's, with the T-Mac and Grant Hill combo, and Rashard Lewis, being the notable exceptions. Outside of that, we usually dont get those guys.

Now you factor in the current state of the league, with players nearly exclusively wanting big markets, and Orlando is basically out of the running of ever being that destination. I'm not saying Orlando will never sign a big name free agent ever again, but we will never land a Kevin Durant / LeBron James / Kahwi Leonard equivalent. 

So understanding that reality, the FO has to utilize the resources we have. A franchise like ours is gonna have to build via draft and trades. We have to find alternative means to FA to team building. And in the case of Vuc, hes the closest option we have to a star.

Take the star we know we can get, rather than waiting for the star we likely won't get, keep a playoff squad in tact, and hope for further development from BIG, and hope that Fultz pans out and can be a game changer. 

It's a gamble, but those sorts of things can combine together to turn us into a dangerous team, especially in a weakened east. 

Of course these things have equal likeliness of blowing up, and Fultz is a "bust" (using that term loosely as he was a very low risk get for us... even if he never played again he didn't cost us anything) and BIG just kinda stagnate.

I'm not saying I like the path we chose... but I get it. I understand it. And in a lot of ways I feel it was the right thing to do.

It's a funny feeling, being a Magic fan, that while all of this is true, it doesn't make for a strictly black and white argument. It's either been a feast or a famine for the teams Orlando puts out. We've been very good very quickly and for short periods. We've been absolutely horrible for stretches. What we haven't really had is like a few years of mediocrity in this "new NBA" where the perfect storm of OK team a few pieces away combined with cap space and opportunity. This may be what the next 4 years is about for this team. Getting incrementally better, betting on continuity and a bright future - while still being mildly competitive now. If all goes well, 5 years from now the kids will all be amidst their primes and Vuc can be our David Lee lol

 

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7 hours ago, Franchise408 said:

Honestly, I think this is the reasoning behind getting Vuc back.

While I love the idea of having tons of cap space for a big free agent, who is that FA that would actually come to Orlando?

Historically, the Magic havent been a huge FA destination. We've mostly gotten big names well past their prime who are in the twilight of their career looking to retire, ala Ewing and Wilkins.

We have had a couple exceptions where we have gotten the big FA's, with the T-Mac and Grant Hill combo, and Rashard Lewis, being the notable exceptions. Outside of that, we usually dont get those guys.

Now you factor in the current state of the league, with players nearly exclusively wanting big markets, and Orlando is basically out of the running of ever being that destination. I'm not saying Orlando will never sign a big name free agent ever again, but we will never land a Kevin Durant / LeBron James / Kahwi Leonard equivalent. 

So understanding that reality, the FO has to utilize the resources we have. A franchise like ours is gonna have to build via draft and trades. We have to find alternative means to FA to team building. And in the case of Vuc, hes the closest option we have to a star.

Take the star we know we can get, rather than waiting for the star we likely won't get, keep a playoff squad in tact, and hope for further development from BIG, and hope that Fultz pans out and can be a game changer. 

It's a gamble, but those sorts of things can combine together to turn us into a dangerous team, especially in a weakened east. 

Of course these things have equal likeliness of blowing up, and Fultz is a "bust" (using that term loosely as he was a very low risk get for us... even if he never played again he didnt cost us anything) and BIG just kinda stagnate.

I'm not saying I like the path we chose... but I get it. I understand it. And in a lot of ways I feel it was the right thing to do.

We haven't had any cap room from like 1992-1999, 2000-2007, 2008-2015, 2017-present. 

So all the times we had major cap room the result was:

1. Didn't get anyone because we were an expansion team

2. Grabbed 2 of the top 3 guys on the market.

3. Grabbed an all star and our number one target

4. Couldn't pull in Paul Millsap

5. Blew all of our money on crap players. 

 

So when we can sell winning+money+location we usually get guys. When we can't sell winning we can't get guys. 

So it's not wrong to try and win now. We need to be able to sell Fultz, Isaac, Bamba and Gordon as pieces of a championship roster just missing their star. Or Fultz and Isaac as the main pieces on the roster with the rest of the guys going to another team in a trade to pair the free agent with a second guy. 

But we need to create the room before any of this is possible

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11 hours ago, Bebop Meat Mop said:

If I can play devil's advocate for a moment, maybe the org believes that the ability to acquire a superstar (and thus become a legit title contender) is slim to none for the foreseeable future and maybe ever again.  This isn't unreasonable, considering that these select few players now have the power to go wherever they want to, whenever they want to.  Why would they want to come to (or stay in) Orlando?  The city isn't great, and the ownership group can't provide business connections outside of basketball that are appealing.     

With that in mind the best path forward would be to assemble a middling playoff team that is extremely likable, with players that have history in the community and that fans can wrap their arms around.  If so, then mission accomplished.

You could see that as a loser's plan, or making the best of a bad situation.  

 

 

I think the whole small market, stars can't make money outside of basketball thing is overblown. It's just not true today's world. Plenty of stars in smaller markets who I see all over the place.

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20 minutes ago, TheNameIsOrlando said:

I think the whole small market, stars can't make money outside of basketball thing is overblown. It's just not true today's world. Plenty of stars in smaller markets who I see all over the place.

Its not overblown at all.  It's an exasperated reality of despair.  They'll make money but there is a substantial gain on the sole dependance of location.  Since we're dealing with young adults in their prime of their lives that play in the nba, theyll most likely want to meet the highest quality of people in their age group at their ladder of wealth and have the best of time doing it around people of equal wealth.  California, New York City, and Miami are the best of the best places to be as superficial  as you like while overcompensating in front of your other superficial friends.  I can go deeper into the ruler measuring contest that goes on every day america but hey!  It's perfect!  Dallas Houston and Chicago are other options but still other options but not as good as those three.  I mean..you want people to see you get *****es than them, you have to go to those three. 

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Social media and the internet has definitely closed the gap on importance of market. When Dwight was here he was the most marketable player in the entire NBA apart from maybe LeBron.

10 years down the line things have got better on that end also in regards to social media.. marketing etc.

Too many negative minds saying we will not be attractive etc etc .. I guarantee we are and we will be much more more ..

 

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5 minutes ago, Jay Magic said:

Social media and the internet has definitely closed the gap on importance of market. When Dwight was here he was the most marketable player in the entire NBA apart from maybe LeBron.

10 years down the line things have got better on that end also in regards to social media.. marketing etc.

Too many negative minds saying we will not be attractive etc etc .. I guarantee we are and we will be much more more ..

 

Yeah and Orlando has risen its marketing potential quite a bit since then. This isn’t Orlando of the 50’s.

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11 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Yeah and Orlando has risen its marketing potential quite a bit since then. This isn’t Orlando of the 50’s.

Yeah. I've said this a few times over the past couple years but it's not really large vs small markets anymore. It's mega markets vs medium vs small. 

There's LA, NY, Chicago. 

There's the next group of 20 teams.

Then there's the small markets, Indianapolis, Salt lake City, San Antonio, Milwaukee, OKC, New Orleans, Memphis.

 

We're much closer to Dallas than Oklahoma City. Maybe not Dallas as defined in city limits. But the greater Orlando market vs the greater Dallas market is similar

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1 hour ago, Magicman28 said:

Yeah and Orlando has risen its marketing potential quite a bit since then. This isn’t Orlando of the 50’s.

Exactly.. 

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1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

Yeah. I've said this a few times over the past couple years but it's not really large vs small markets anymore. It's mega markets vs medium vs small. 

There's LA, NY, Chicago. 

There's the next group of 20 teams.

Then there's the small markets, Indianapolis, Salt lake City, San Antonio, Milwaukee, OKC, New Orleans, Memphis.

 

We're much closer to Dallas than Oklahoma City. Maybe not Dallas as defined in city limits. But the greater Orlando market vs the greater Dallas market is similar

Yep pretty much..

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5 minutes ago, Jay Magic said:

 

I love Wes. I thought his defense was excellent last season. If his shooting from the second half of the season holds (43% from 3), he'll be a great 3 and D player for us this season.

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