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Bauncey Chillups

2019 Offseason Thread

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On 5/13/2019 at 8:18 AM, hootie249 said:

   Shameless copy paste from S.A.

Bucks Starting Lineup
39th pick
18th pick 
15th pick 
36th pick
10th pick 

Raptors Starting Lineup
48th pick
15th pick
46th pick
27th pick 
24th pick 

       Remember folks not all stars are lottery picks. Also most of the players from both teams started with another franchise. 

A good front office finds a way to get unproven players from elsewhere and turn them into productive veterans.

It is interesting that the top player on each team was the #15 pick in their respective drafts, but is it anything?!?

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49 minutes ago, Magicpassion said:

Interesting! I remember a certain Moderator say there was little to no value in the second round. Oops 

I never said that. I said there's little value at the end of the second round. 

You responded with a couple players that worked out. 

Then I responded with something like a hundred players that didn't. 

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No need to go back here but I said there is value in the second round; that’s it, I didn’t say beginning, middle or end; just second round. 

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20 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I never said that. I said there's little value at the end of the second round. 

You responded with a couple players that worked out. 

Then I responded with something like a hundred players that didn't. 

I think the real point is that good management is able to find those second round contributors with more consistency, that is part of how they establish themselves. The Spurs are good at it, and used the late second round for "draft and stash" players. It is no accident that 40% of the MIL/TOR starting lineups are 2nd round picks, 20% are "late" second round picks. It is a testament to the management of the teams that found them. They were selected by Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, and the Lakers (Gasol, who was immediately part of the trade package for his brother!). It is promising to me that WeltHam had a hand in one of those 2nd rounders, and found Giannis with #15. It says something about their ability to assess talent. So, I think that your point about little value at the end of the second round is a little simplistic; finding value there is definitely difficult, it isn't there every year, it has to fit your team, and the odds for finding it greatly depend on who is doing the looking. I think we may finally have the right guys in charge to be able to find it, now it is a matter of the rest. We don't have a lot of slots open right now, even if we did find it, now you have to find a space for it. You don't give up an Iwundu for a late 2nd rounder who gives you 75% of what he does, there isn't a real value there; but if you find someone who gives you more than Frazier, you consider waiving him and opening his slot up. 

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20 minutes ago, Magicpassion said:

No need to go back here but I said there is value in the second round; that’s it, I didn’t say beginning, middle or end; just second round. 

No you didn't. 

We were discussing jerian Grant. You said it sucks that we gave up a pick for him. I said "it's the 51st pick. Pretty much worthless". You responded "Isaiah Thomas #60". I responded "that's a bad way to look at draft pick value". Then you went and found the best players picked between 51 and 60. Then I provided analysis of 120 players picked between 49 and 60 over the last 10 drafts. Then you said "we don't need a dissertation". 

So yes. You were specifically talking about the end of the second round. You were wrong then and you're still wrong. 

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4 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said:

I think the real point is that good management is able to find those second round contributors with more consistency, that is part of how they establish themselves. The Spurs are good at it, and used the late second round for "draft and stash" players. It is no accident that 40% of the MIL/TOR starting lineups are 2nd round picks, 20% are "late" second round picks. It is a testament to the management of the teams that found them. They were selected by Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, and the Lakers (Gasol, who was immediately part of the trade package for his brother!). It is promising to me that WeltHam had a hand in one of those 2nd rounders, and found Giannis with #15. It says something about their ability to assess talent. So, I think that your point about little value at the end of the second round is a little simplistic; finding value there is definitely difficult, it isn't there every year, it has to fit your team, and the odds for finding it greatly depend on who is doing the looking. I think we may finally have the right guys in charge to be able to find it, now it is a matter of the rest. We don't have a lot of slots open right now, even if we did find it, now you have to find a space for it. You don't give up an Iwundu for a late 2nd rounder who gives you 75% of what he does, there isn't a real value there; but if you find someone who gives you more than Frazier, you consider waiving him and opening his slot up. 

The problem with that line of thinking is most of those second round players were drafted by other teams, bounced around the league for a while and then began to develop for a variety of reasons (better fit, better team development, getting a wake up call by being almost out of the league and working harder, being older and more mature). 

 

The Spurs are really good at evaluating talent. They were really good at exploiting the inefficient international scouting. Once other teams picked up on that their advantage was gone (only 3 of their last 21 second round picks have become anything but that's mostly due to them picking late). 

 

 

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I do think it's interesting that we've been able to find two rotation players overseas who were udfas in the past. That might be something. 

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2 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

The problem with that line of thinking is most of those second round players were drafted by other teams, bounced around the league for a while and then began to develop for a variety of reasons (better fit, better team development, getting a wake up call by being almost out of the league and working harder, being older and more mature). 

 

The Spurs are really good at evaluating talent. They were really good at exploiting the inefficient international scouting. Once other teams picked up on that their advantage was gone (only 3 of their last 21 second round picks have become anything but that's mostly due to them picking late). 

 

 

Very true, that other teams have mostly caught up to the Spurs as far as international scouting has gone. I tend to agree that 2nd round picks have limited value, and most guys picked there do tend to bounce around before getting it together. I'm not saying we need to load up on 2nd round picks, just that with our current front office they may have more value now than they did in the past. 

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35 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said:

Very true, that other teams have mostly caught up to the Spurs as far as international scouting has gone. I tend to agree that 2nd round picks have limited value, and most guys picked there do tend to bounce around before getting it together. I'm not saying we need to load up on 2nd round picks, just that with our current front office they may have more value now than they did in the past. 

And there's a significant difference between a pick in the 30s and the last 12 picks in the second round. 

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11 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

He got arrested for relatively nothing. I don't think it does anything to his value. 

I disagree. It is not about the arrest but more about his actions. He was irresponsible, defying authority and trying to get what he wanted at any cost. We don't need that here.  His in-court talent is not that valuable to over shadow his poor attitude and low risk of becoming a locker room nightmare. 

I rather give Iwundu that SF back up role

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