Magic Vs. Raptors - Sunday, April 21st at 7:00 P.M.

[ML6 520]

14 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I just wish we played more games like game 1 and game 3. If that happened we'd be able to spend the off-season thinking we're 1 or 2 players away from the next step (with those 1 or 2 players potentially being injured rookies on the bench) 

But with this gulf between us and Toronto we're 3 players away.  

Well, if I'm being honest, part of my appreciation for season is also because I think we're likely taking a step back next year.  I assume Vooch walks and Ross is 50/50 to stay.  As you've mentioned, Vooch leaving lowers our floor but raises our ceiling -- I think that next season is probably the one where we feel the effects of the lower floor unless we make unexpected offseason moves.  The higher ceiling is more of a long-term thing IMO.  Unless Fultz is completely back to old Fultz, I'm not super sure of the offensive capability/consistency of a Fultz/Fournier/Isaac/Gordon/Bamba lineup. 

So I agree with your overall point that we're several pieces away.  I guess what I'm saying is that since I know that, I'm trying to fully appreciate this season in case next season proves to be comparatively not as great, which I think is a decent possibility.

EDIT: That lineup will be much, much more fun.  Just questionable if it will be as effective until Fultz/Bamba get more experience.

[Just a regular Magic fan 38]

15 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I just wish we played more games like game 1 and game 3. If that happened we'd be able to spend the off-season thinking we're 1 or 2 players away from the next step (with those 1 or 2 players potentially being injured rookies on the bench)

But with this gulf between us and Toronto we're 3 players away. 

Good points. I am no expert, but except for AG last night, our midrange game was virtually non-existent, so when they made it difficult for us to hit our 3's or we made it hard on ourselves by missing our 3's, we really had nothing to go to. I could be wrong, but I think if our guys really worked on their midrange game this summer it will help us in the long run. We always here guys are 3 & D, but I think that's a mistake because it limits ourselves when they aren't falling. I would love to see guys like AG, JI, Bamba, Fultz develop a more complete game and not just rely on either 3 pointers or dunks. They have the athletic ability. They should use it.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

17 minutes ago, ChuckTaylor626 said:

Good points. I am no expert, but except for AG last night, our midrange game was virtually non-existent, so when they made it difficult for us to hit our 3's or we made it hard on ourselves by missing our 3's, we really had nothing to go to. I could be wrong, but I think if our guys really worked on their midrange game this summer it will help us in the long run. We always here guys are 3 & D, but I think that's a mistake because it limits ourselves when they aren't falling. I would love to see guys like AG, JI, Bamba, Fultz develop a more complete game and not just rely on either 3 pointers or dunks. They have the athletic ability. They should use it.

Gordon is our only 3 and D player right now. Everyone else has been 3 or D. Or neither. 

Isaac and iwundu are inexperienced but good theoretical 3 and D bets. 

Ross hasn't played good defense for a few months now. 

The answer isn't more mid-range shots. It's Gordon getting to the rim, breaking down the defense, and kicking it out to guys for open shots. When that happened our offense was fine (but then the defense lagged because Isaac was out and Fournier couldn't defend). 

We need guys that can shoot and defend. 

[Tank Vogel 191]

We've always overrated Ross as a defender. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

5 minutes ago, Tank Vogel said:

We've always overrated Ross as a defender. 

No. Early in the season this year, pre-injury last year, and post trade he was super active on defense, regularly switched down to point guards, and caused a ton of deflections and steals. 

Don't think we can expect him to be a top offensive option while simultaneously being a high energy defender. James harden effect. 

[CTMagicUK 1,480]

1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

That's not a bad idea. Then we throw the MLE at a shooting guard. 

Do we think Jeremy Lamb would want more than the MLE? He's familiar with Coach Cliffs system, is a decent shooter and scorer and can play the 2 or 3 plus he's still not too old so you could commit the full 4 years to him and he won't regress in that time.

Teague

Lamb

Isaac

AG

Bamba/Birch

With Ross, Augustin, Birch/Bamba, Iwundu/MCW/Both, Fultz and a rookie off the bench isn't half bad. 

[Just a regular Magic fan 38]

1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

Gordon is our only 3 and D player right now. Everyone else has been 3 or D. Or neither. 

Isaac and iwundu are inexperienced but good theoretical 3 and D bets. 

Ross hasn't played good defense for a few months now. 

The answer isn't more mid-range shots. It's Gordon getting to the rim, breaking down the defense, and kicking it out to guys for open shots. When that happened our offense was fine (but then the defense lagged because Isaac was out and Fournier couldn't defend). 

We need guys that can shoot and defend. 

I get kicking it out once in a while, but I don't understand why AG should pass when he gets to the rim. The idea where we drive and kick it out all the time doesn't make sense to me. We will live or die by the 3 and do nothing to develop the other parts of our offense. I think we should give ourselves some other options because if we are going to rely on Fournier or others to consistently make their shots then we will get what we've got. Nada.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

8 minutes ago, ChuckTaylor626 said:

I get kicking it out once in a while, but I don't understand why AG should pass when he gets to the rim. The idea where we drive and kick it out all the time doesn't make sense to me. We will live or die by the 3 and do nothing to develop the other parts of our offense. I think we should give ourselves some other options because if we are going to rely on Fournier or others to consistently make their shots then we will get what we've got. Nada.

Because that's what every team does as the initiating action of their offense. Have a guy draw multiple defenders and then kick it out, rotate the ball, get the defense off balance, find cutters. 

[TrueMagicFan07 671]

3 hours ago, TheImmortalPatBurke! said:

4 hours ago, Soul Bro said:

As our all star in the playoffs, Vooch is shooting 37 FG% and 27 3PT%. Additionally, he’s been repeatedly targeted through switches on defense. Raise your hand if you’re ready to move on. 

Why is this so suprising to anyone but me.  How could anyone who knows anything about basketball not see this coming?  Clifford is a big man coach who glorified his strenghs in the regular season.  Slowed the pace down do highlight his strenghs on offense and lessen his weaknesses on defense.  Playoff basketball is a sped up frantic pace  which is not Vuc's game. Where you can game plan for the same opponent and weaknesses are exposed.  Vooch is a skilled big man with limited athleticism and limited upside.  As I have said many times he is great at being the best player on a bad or average team.   How could anyone of any sense ever have wanted to give him a big long term big contract?  Especially what his body of work has been for 7 years.

 

Hey, hold on Thelm! I posted right AFTER  Vuc was named an Allstar, for everyone to beware that  Vuc's performance before the Allstar break was merely an  attempt by him to be named an Allstar. I said it was fools' gold and that he would come back down to earth.

[Just a regular Magic fan 38]

28 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Because that's what every team does as the initiating action of their offense. Have a guy draw multiple defenders and then kick it out, rotate the ball, get the defense off balance, find cutters. 

So...we are looking for guys who can only shoot the 3 or cut to the basket, and play decent defense? Dang, I must be old school.  I can see a team like ours having to resort to that style because we don't have a legitimate superstar who can create on their own. Next year, when hopefully Fultz is healthy, is he going to be the guy who drives and kicks it out?

[Magicfan1987 266]

1 minute ago, ChuckTaylor626 said:

So...we are looking for guys who can only shoot the 3 or cut to the basket, and play decent defense? Dang, I must be old school.  I can see a team like ours having to resort to that style because we don't have a legitimate superstar who can create on their own. Next year, when hopefully Fultz is healthy, is he going to be the guy who drives and kicks it out?

Fultz with a jumper, college Fultz, is the ideal cornerstone for the modern and future NBA player. He can create space with his handles and his athleticism.  He also creates space with his lateral quickness and long arms. Watch the difference between a Gordon crossover (shorter arms) and a Isaac crossover. The space created is apparent.

[TrueMagicFan07 671]

35 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Because that's what every team does as the initiating action of their offense. Have a guy draw multiple defenders and then kick it out, rotate the ball, get the defense off balance, find cutters. 

^^^This. I said some of that in another ?thread. What I said was go uptempo/fastbreak. Drive hard to the basket and then kick it out (also, to have the defense scramble).

But ?4thewin said that the uptempo wouldn't work with Vuc on the floor. For the record, I agreed.