KRISH10 103 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 26 minutes ago, JJZFL said: No we wouldn't. We'd be even more of a laughing stock than we are now. If we even still had a team in Orlando at that point. If we were tanking we wouldn’t have won pointless games at the end of losing seasons and would have had higher picks. We also would have kept Dipo instead of trying to rush to make the playoffs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, KRISH10 said: If we were tanking we wouldn’t have won pointless games at the end of losing seasons and would have had higher picks. We also would have kept Dipo instead of trying to rush to make the playoffs When did we win pointless games that cost us draft picks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KRISH10 103 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, ?4thewin said: When did we win pointless games that cost us draft picks? Either last year or the one before we beat Dallas when they played all scrubs, had we lost that game we would have had higher odds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, KRISH10 said: Either last year or the one before we beat Dallas when they played all scrubs, had we lost that game we would have had higher odds. You're arguing we were trying to win a game that we played Mack-purvis-Artis-hezonja-Birch and iwundu for the final 16 minutes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KRISH10 103 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, ?4thewin said: You're arguing we were trying to win a game that we played Mack-purvis-Artis-hezonja-Birch and iwundu for the final 16 minutes? Do you just choose to ignore the other 32 minutes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, KRISH10 said: Do you just choose to ignore the other 32 minutes? I think that's a pretty weak argument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrueBlueDrew 75 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 For me, it comes down to poor Front Office decisions (Otis) followed by a poor gamble (Henny) who was scared to stand up to a "seasoned" coach (Skiles) and because he was intimidated by him, then he scrambled to make other 'splash' moves which all backfired. Now we have new front office guys who have been trying to clean up the place from the previous managements poor decisions and then they will go from there. The Magic need to attack this on a variety of levels: 1) The Magic need to get in control of their finances, clear out the bad contracts, and continue to give good ones. (AG has a great contract, both for the player and the org I think) 2) The Magic need to rebuild their brand. Orlando should be one of the major marketable teams in the NBA. Obviously you don't have the history like the Lakers, Celtics, or 76ers, but you can build something worthy of respect (ex: OKC, GSW, MIL). There aren't many players/coaches/agents who probably look at the Magic very seriously, maybe more of a courtesy than anything else. We need to make the team one of those that you are always aware of. This is where the idea of "trading Vucevic" is difficult because, like I mentioned earlier, he could be an all-star and if you trade him that doesn't show that the Magic Org values its players very much. 3) The Magic need to assemble a team of players that can compete at a high level consistently. This is connected with #2 because if you have a name that is respected then players will start to seriously consider coming and playing here. (I think we're close to that, but the amount of double digit leads we have blown this season is concerning...almost like we're used to losing that when we get a lead, we don't know what it feels like to keep it or add to it) 4) The Magic need do a better job of drafting in the first round. No more gambles. No more long-term projects. Until the Magic have all the pieces they need in their starting 5, you can't really take that chance anymore. 5) The Magic need to start/continue pouring into their coaching/training staff as well as the players. We need a staff that commands respect as well as a training staff. We should have coaches that could be considered in head coaching positions elsewhere. We need former coaches (like SVG...not a serious suggestion just the first name of a former coach who isn't coaching currently) who will come be an assistant and help mold these young men into proper ball players. This can include guys like player coaches. I think Ross and Vince Carter would both be EXCELLENT additions to our bench if they'd be willing to come here. I think if you begin to focus on these 5 things you will see change. Now obviously this takes time, proper scouting, hiring, developing, negotiations, etc. etc. All the while, the fan base wants so desperately to be in the playoffs they'll cry for anything to happen in order to feel like we are heading in the right direction. I still believe we have the right Front Office for the job. I hope that Martins stays out of their way and lets them lead like they know how. Those guys had a major fingerprint over who Milwaukee and Toronto are now. Let's believe they can get it done here too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KRISH10 103 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, ?4thewin said: I think that's a pretty weak argument. Whatever bro I really don’t care what you think.... You’re not the all knowing Magic fan. My opinion is that the originization never embraced tanking like some other teams and we are stuck with below average talent... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, KRISH10 said: Whatever bro I really don’t care what you think.... You’re not the all knowing Magic fan. My opinion is that the originization never embraced tanking like some other teams and we are stuck with below average talent... I just don't think you really understand what tanking is if you think playing g-league guys 30+ minutes isn't tanking because Gordon played in the first half. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KRISH10 103 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, ?4thewin said: I just don't think you really understand what tanking is if you think playing g-league guys 30+ minutes isn't tanking because Gordon played in the first half. You seem to have access and the know how to find the game thread, go take a look at it and I guarantee you that almost every person on here was saying the same thing that night. If we really wanted to thank we could have sat all of our starters like they did 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrueBlueDrew 75 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, KRISH10 said: Whatever bro I really don’t care what you think.... You’re not the all knowing Magic fan. My opinion is that the originization never embraced tanking like some other teams and we are stuck with below average talent... Who else besides Philly embraced tanking and had it work out for them? Cleveland? Look where that landed them. If Lebron doesn't come back, that team is still a disaster and Kyrie leaves whenever his contract is up. Atlanta? Hasn't really panned out. Sacramento? Possibly, but they made a really good trade with the Pelicans because Buddy is great next to Fox. Having the right PG does wonders for your team, which is why Fox is taking everyone and pushing them beyond probably where they would have been naturally (like WCS). Dallas? They still needed to make a move to land Luka, but they have a bunch of weird pieces. Not really a solid team. Knicks? Yeah... Phoenix? They landed Booker. Ayton isn't the dominant force everyone thought he would be. I remember hearing Dwight Howard comparisons at one point. Maybe he develops into that, but right now. That hasn't really worked out either. Memphis? They're about to blow it all up and trade Gasol and Conley if I had to bet. So hasn't really worked for them either. Point is this. Tanking doesn't necessarily mean anything. I just mentioned 8 other teams who could be considered "tanking" that means you have to OUT-TANK all of them to get in the top 3. Which is a dumb way to think about it but also makes the job harder and when you have decent pieces that can win you some games (like Vuc, Fournier, AG...) then you'll win a few and that bumps you up a little bit in the draft. 2018 -- Unless you can get Luka, no one else taken above Bamba looks like an absolute sure thing (although I bet JJJ will get it figured out soon) 2017 -- I think missing out on a opportunity for Tatum/Fox is painful but Isaac still has a lot of unwrapped potential. Could be a KD-type player with his length+shot (he says optimistically). 2016 -- Trading Dipo is our dumb move for this draft. If you tank, I guess you have a chance at Jamal Murray? 2015 -- I think this one really hurts because I think the Mario draft was a complete miss. Tanking may have helped but Minnesota had 6 fewer wins than us and still got the #1 overall even though Philly and LAL both had under 20 wins. So it's also the luck of the draw. Bottom line: Tanking isn't the answer. Drafting/Developing better is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrueBlueDrew 75 Report post Posted January 31, 2019 8 hours ago, Soul Bro said: Great list. Thanks. The ones that hurt to me are... 2015 - Choosing Hezonja over Booker. Booker was begging to come to Orlando, and Mario was known to have attitude issues. I personally wanted Winslow. 2016 - The trade of Dipo and Sabonis for Ibaka. Hated it then and hate it now. And I never thought we should of had to add Sabonis to the deal. 2018 - The verdict is still out but I think we might regret not choosing Sexton or SGA over Bamba. I think SGA is going to be the steal of this draft. We knew who Luka was going into it. I think Trae Young will either bust out or be mediocre, don't see him becoming a superstar. Ayton and Bamba will always be linked just because they're talented big men. Guess we will see who develops first. I desperately wanted the Magic to make a trade with the Clippers to get SGA during the draft. So so so so bad. SGA will be a solid guy to build around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
