1st Preseason game: Magic @ 76ers

[DirtDan2012 201]

Just now, Magicpassion said:

It kills me when I see Saric doing well because he was ours but we gave him up to get Elfrid Payton who will be in Europe in a couple of years. 

Europe wouldn't have him... Maybe China....... LOL

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Just now, Magicpassion said:

It kills me when I see Saric doing well because he was ours but we gave him up to get Elfrid Payton who will be in Europe in a couple of years. 

Don't. If we didn't draft Payton I think we draft Tyler Ennis. No way we were drafting Gordon and saric with Harris and Harkless on the team. 

[Magicpassion 4]

Just now, DirtDan2012 said:

Europe wouldn't have him... Maybe China....... LOL

Your right, you got to be able to shoot in Europe.

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

Only one pre-season game and I'm already tired of Vucevic's antics.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Just now, Bauncey Chillups said:

Only one pre-season game and I'm already tired of Vucevic's antics.

Yeah. People will see the stat line and think he played well but it's his typical plodding, slow reactions on defense. No attempt to crash the boards. Disappointing. 

I spent the summer thinking that maybe the hate went too far with vucevic but it didn't take long to remind me why the hate exists

[JJZFL 618]

12 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Yeah. People will see the stat line and think he played well but it's his typical plodding, slow reactions on defense. No attempt to crash the boards. Disappointing. 

I spent the summer thinking that maybe the hate went too far with vucevic but it didn't take long to remind me why the hate exists

 

On 9/27/2018 at 8:10 AM, JJZFL said:

Ok.  Fair points.  I weight some of Vuchs intangibles as more negative than you do, because I see his lack of effort on defense demoralizing everyone else.  The intensity level of the team dropped dramatically when he returned last February. But we’ve probably gone about as far as we can with this discussion.  

I think we all tend to forget some of the bad stuff from the previous season over the summer.  And there’s nothing wrong with being hopeful or optimistic.  Unfortunately Vuch may be a lost cause at this point. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

1 minute ago, JJZFL said:

 

I think we all tend to forget some of the bad stuff from the previous season over the summer.  And there’s nothing wrong with being hopeful or optimistic.  Unfortunately Vuch may be a lost cause at this point. 

Yeah. Big mea culpa from me. 

Also if (big if) this version of Bamba is an every night occurrence he should start too. 

I was expecting him to be an 8/8 guy year one. 12 points in 16 minutes playing against embiid is much more than I expected. And he really wasn't up to his standards on defensive impact plays but his mobility was important. 

We need to see if he can play without fouling. I'm not worried about that yet (it's preseason for the refs too) but it's important if we're going to count on him. 

[~O~ 565]

1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

Ok you said Fournier shot bad shots

I disagreed

I said that's absurd. there's only been something like 14 high usage 50/40/90 seasons in history. 

You said it's not absurd you just want us to have Hall of famers so we can win championships. 

I said it's unreasonable to expect guys to be HoFs. 

If you break down our discussion your points don't really make sense for a normal flow of logic. Fournier is a good shooter. He's not special. It doesn't make sense to judge him based on a Klay Thompson standard. He's just not that guy. 

I think he did take bad shoots and tried to shoot himself out of it.  He even hesitated on his form on one of his three point attempts at the left wing almost on the baseline.  He even blew his best opportunity he had at scoring when he was given an open floater on an uncontested drive at the rim.  The Philadelphia commentators even let him have it saying..he was not playing like he was last year in this game.

You said only 50/40/90 players should shoot those shots.~Well..they became 50/40/90 players somehow right?  They had to shoot those shots and become efficient at it.  I'm setting goals for players they're not setting themselves which is not reasonable I agree.  I want to have the faith their setting goals for themselves.  There's other ways of becoming elite but in advanced categories.  50/40/90 is just an example of greatness.  

I don't think its absurd or unreasonable to want our players to be Hall of Fame caliber players. Its necessary.  My vision is of high expectations.  An Orlando Magic dynasty is underheard of to ESPN let alone the entire NBA community.  Finally, dynasty being able to retire someones number with a title to show rather than just a bunch of leading stats in rebounds or points. 

To a lesser extent the Magic could make it to the finals in a dirk like fashion and win  a single title if they're lucky but they'll need at least one hall of fame player for such stretch. To an even lesser extend, we could have  team of fan favorites but stuck in playoff purgatory like Atlanta and be first round to second round exits for 3 to 5 years.  We were stuck like this against Detroit and Boston.  

  If we were competing right now, the Magic would need four all-stars and savvy veterans who know themselves.  With what Boston and Philly has done, how can you even possibly hope to believe that this team could beat them without at least 2 to 3 all-star players.  That's...absurd.  THEN...having to face the Western Conference monster in the finals.  Whoever that would be?  

This is all on the merit that the league holds the Golden State standard to winning titles which is basically overwhelming the opponent with efficiency in every facet of the game that is currently possible.  

But he can be who he is and the shots he attempted we're also fine. Those aren't mutually exclusive statements. ~~~ I want him to be..who he is..but the best version of that.  The best version of him should be continuously more efficient than previous season showing gradual strides. He doesn't have to be Klay but he has to make a name for himself.  

 

BUT once again.........ITS PRESEASON and first game of preseason....Its whatever but  GOALS, Magic!  We need Goals and to meet those goals!  

 

 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

10 minutes ago, ~O~ said:

I think he did take bad shoots and tried to shoot himself out of it.  He even hesitated on his form on one of his three point attempts at the left wing almost on the baseline.  He even blew his best opportunity he had at scoring when he was given an open floater on an uncontested drive at the rim.  The Philadelphia commentators even let him have it saying..he was not playing like he was last year in this game.

You said only 50/40/90 players should shoot those shots.~Well..they became 50/40/90 players somehow right?  They had to shoot those shots and become efficient at it.  I'm setting goals for players they're not setting themselves which is not reasonable I agree.  I want to have the faith their setting goals for themselves.  There's other ways of becoming elite but in advanced categories.  50/40/90 is just an example of greatness.  

I don't think its absurd or unreasonable to want our players to be Hall of Fame caliber players. Its necessary.  My vision is of high expectations.  An Orlando Magic dynasty is underheard of to ESPN let alone the entire NBA community.  Finally, dynasty being able to retire someones number with a title to show rather than just a bunch of leading stats in rebounds or points. 

To a lesser extent the Magic could make it to the finals in a dirk like fashion and win  a single title if they're lucky but they'll need at least one hall of fame player for such stretch. To an even lesser extend, we could have  team of fan favorites but stuck in playoff purgatory like Atlanta and be first round to second round exits for 3 to 5 years.  We were stuck like this against Detroit and Boston.  

  If we were competing right now, the Magic would need four all-stars and savvy veterans who know themselves.  With what Boston and Philly has done, how can you even possibly hope to believe that this team could beat them without at least 2 to 3 all-star players.  That's...absurd.  THEN...having to face the Western Conference monster in the finals.  Whoever that would be?  

This is all on the merit that the league holds the Golden State standard to winning titles which is basically overwhelming the opponent with efficiency in every facet of the game that is currently possible.  

But he can be who he is and the shots he attempted we're also fine. Those aren't mutually exclusive statements. ~~~ I want him to be..who he is..but the best version of that.  The best version of him should be continuously more efficient than previous season showing gradual strides. He doesn't have to be Klay but he has to make a name for himself.  

 

BUT once again.........ITS PRESEASON and first game of preseason....Its whatever but  GOALS, Magic!  We need Goals and to meet those goals!  

 

 

We're not judging players on whether or not they can beat Philly or Boston. We're hoping that Gordon, Isaac, and Bamba are good enough to build around so a few years from now they'll either draw a solid free agent or became great. 

It doesn't make sense to judge anyone on "if they can win a championship" today. 

Because the answer is no. And it's likely going to always be no. But sometimes you just need to shoot for a 4th seed for a while just to see what happens. 

And maybe we'll get lucky. 

 

[Odin 137]

30 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Yeah. Big mea culpa from me. 

Also if (big if) this version of Bamba is an every night occurrence he should start too. 

I was expecting him to be an 8/8 guy year one. 12 points in 16 minutes playing against embiid is much more than I expected. And he really wasn't up to his standards on defensive impact plays but his mobility was important. 

We need to see if he can play without fouling. I'm not worried about that yet (it's preseason for the refs too) but it's important if we're going to count on him. 

So I couldn’t see the game, but sometimes fouling on defense is ok for a young guy. Usually means they are active and trying to do good things- but still don’t have the timing/positioning yet.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

And his shots were fine. They were open and within the scope of the offense. His "worst" shot was a specifically designed play for him to shoot. 

Fournier should shoot every time he's open as he's 45% on wide open threes. There's not really a bad open shot for Fournier, Ross, or Augustin. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

3 minutes ago, Odin said:

So I couldn’t see the game, but sometimes fouling on defense is ok for a young guy. Usually means they are active and trying to do good things- but still don’t have the timing/positioning yet.

Or you're Daniel Orton