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2018 Official Offseason Thread

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Franchise408    65
5 minutes ago, Catalina Maria said:

If Vuc comes off the bench, we are much better. 

I don't think we're "much" better with Vuc starting or on the bench.

On the bench, we are starting an unpolished rookie who may or may not be ready for the real show. I'm not for or against starting Bamba over Vuc. We're not making playoffs this year anyways so if it's more beneficial to Bamba's development to start, then he should start. But I don't think that makes us "much" better, if even better at all. At least not this year.

Long term? Possibly. Again, it depends on whether Bamba's long term development will be better starting or coming off the bench. And his long term development should be a focus over being "better" this year.

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Nyce_1    258

43 games.

 

35 last year if average healthy and internal growth

+ 5 games for new coach 

+ 3-4 games for improved point guard and center rotation and play.

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?4thewin    1,724
43 minutes ago, Franchise408 said:

You can go back about 20 years or so, and the #1 overall pick is about a 50-50 at best of landing a player that is or isn't a bust.

Between the 1997 draft and the 2016 draft the only busts were Bennett, oden, bargnani, Brown, olowokandi. 

That's a 75-25, not 50/50

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Franchise408    65

Non franchise changing #1 overall picks since 1997

Olowakandi, Elton Brand, Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Andrea Bargnani, Greg Oden, Anthony Bennett, and the #1 picks since 2016 are still too recent to tell.

So yea, that's about 50% of them that aren't working tanking your franchise for. They might not have been full busts, but definitely not worth sinking an entire franchise for. The ones that weren't bust, theres even less of them that ended up bringing a championship to their original team.

Tanking doesnt work. Plain and simple. I don't even see how it's arguable at this point, it's so clearly a failed philosophy.

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Odin    85
8 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Between the 1997 draft and the 2016 draft the only busts were Bennett, oden, bargnani, Brown, olowokandi. 

That's a 75-25, not 50/50

I always feel a bit bad for Oden there. While he is definitely a bust, his body failed him not his desire or skill.

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?4thewin    1,724
48 minutes ago, Franchise408 said:

With *our* players you do.

I think you greatly overestimate how good our players actually are. We do *not* have a playoff caliber roster.

I think we might have had a playoff roster last year. We only had 7 healthy games last year and we went 7-0 in those games where Ross Fournier Isaac Gordon vucevic Simmons and either Augustin or Payton played. 

Now I don't think that means they're contenders or even second round teams but we had really bad luck that led to a significantly more loses than expected

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?4thewin    1,724
9 minutes ago, Franchise408 said:

Non franchise changing #1 overall picks since 1997

Olowakandi, Elton Brand, Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Andrea Bargnani, Greg Oden, Anthony Bennett, and the #1 picks since 2016 are still too recent to tell.

So yea, that's about 50% of them that aren't working tanking your franchise for. They might not have been full busts, but definitely not worth sinking an entire franchise for. The ones that weren't bust, theres even less of them that ended up bringing a championship to their original team.

Tanking doesnt work. Plain and simple. I don't even see how it's arguable at this point, it's so clearly a failed philosophy.

Bogut made an all NBA team and an all defensive team. 

Elton brand's first 606 games of his career he averaged 20, 10, and 2 blocks. Had he not spent the best years of his career playing for the worst run franchise in recent memory he'd be much more fondly remember. 

eh I might give you Martin. 

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Franchise408    65

Only because the last 2 or 3 are still up in the air. One of them hasn't even played a game yet. So you're looking at closer to 8 / 16 or 8 / 17 that weren't franchise changing players. So yea. 50 / 50.

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?4thewin    1,724
Just now, Franchise408 said:

Only because the last 2 or 3 are still up in the air. One of them hasn't even played a game yet. So you're looking at closer to 8 / 16 or 8 / 17 that weren't franchise changing players. So yea. 50 / 50.

Way to totally move the goal posts to fit your narrative

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?4thewin    1,724

Yeah the last 20 years but only between 1998 and 2013 so we get Kenyon Martin and kwame brown and olowokandi and Anthony Bennett. 

 

Yeah sure buddy. You're not intellectually dishonest

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