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2018 Official Offseason Thread

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The only way I'm taking back dieng from Minnesota is if we send Augustin and mozgov back to them and we get Tyus Jones in the deal to cover our starting pg spot. 

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10 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

The only way I'm taking back dieng from Minnesota is if we send Augustin and mozgov back to them and we get Tyus Jones in the deal to cover our starting pg spot. 

We don't have any real need for him.

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20 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

The only way I'm taking back dieng from Minnesota is if we send Augustin and mozgov back to them and we get Tyus Jones in the deal to cover our starting pg spot. 

I'm not sure that Jones is really any kind of an upgrade over Augustin. He's a 35% 3-pt shooter, and his per 36 numbers are about the same, or slightly worse. 

 

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3 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

We'd probably waive and stretch him

I guess that makes sense. Still expensive for the team though. Is Tyus any good? It looks like he grades out as adequate back up right now, and he has had three years in the league.

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4 minutes ago, Odin said:

I guess that makes sense. Still expensive for the team though. Is Tyus any good? It looks like he grades out as adequate back up right now, and he has had three years in the league.

He doesn't really get opportunities or put up stats but he's a really positive player for some reason. 

It's not really a "game over we have our starting point guard" situation. More like a "its kind of pointless to trade for Butler and run a Grant-briscoe-caupain point guard rotation" situation. So at least with Jones you're keeping that position afloat with a competent player

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10 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said:

I'm not sure that Jones is really any kind of an upgrade over Augustin. He's a 35% 3-pt shooter, and his per 36 numbers are about the same, or slightly worse. 

 

That's not the point. 

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22 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

That's not the point. 

I understand you are saying we would only take back Dieng if we included Mozgov/Augustin, and get back Jones. Dieng/Mozgov is a wash, as neither probably plays here, and either probably gets waived and stretched at some point. My question is, is the Jones/Butler combo really that much of an upgrade over Augustin/Fournier? I don't know enough about Jones' defense to argue one way or the other; but from a straight numbers pov, it's really about a wash. Trade machine says the dealt works; and gives us a +4 games result. My problem is, what happens at the end of the season, when we either lose Butler for nothing, or have to pay him way too much to keep him. Years 1-3 on a "super-max" might not be too bad, but years 4-5 are probably going to be painful, unless you think he is going to continue being as productive into his mid-30's. 

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59 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said:

I'm not sure that Jones is really any kind of an upgrade over Augustin. He's a 35% 3-pt shooter, and his per 36 numbers are about the same, or slightly worse. 

 

Tyus Jones is far smarter and a better defender than Augustin

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3 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said:

I understand you are saying we would only take back Dieng if we included Mozgov/Augustin, and get back Jones. Dieng/Mozgov is a wash, as neither probably plays here, and either probably gets waived and stretched at some point. My question is, is the Jones/Butler combo really that much of an upgrade over Augustin/Fournier? I don't know enough about Jones' defense to argue one way or the other; but from a straight numbers pov, it's really about a wash. Trade machine says the dealt works; and gives us a +4 games result. My problem is, what happens at the end of the season, when we either lose Butler for nothing, or have to pay him way too much to keep him. Years 1-3 on a "super-max" might not be too bad, but years 4-5 are probably going to be painful, unless you think he is going to continue being as productive into his mid-30's. 

Ok. Jones is a good defender. 

Butler and Jones vs Augustin and Fournier is a significant improvement

If part of the deal about resigning him is he's pulling another free agent then you're fine and don't really need to concern yourself with money. You have (big money free agent)-Butler-Isaac-Gordon-Bamba. 

Depending on additional free agent signings you can stay under the luxury tax from now through 2022 with relative ease even if you max out Isaac which might be premature to consider him a max guy but for the sake of argument let's do that. 

2023 if you max Isaac and max Bamba you can't afford to resign Gordon but if you pay Isaac 20 million and Bamba 20 million you can pay Gordon 20 million and fill out your roster and you'll still be only in the 150 million total roster salary range. That sounds like a crazy amount but you should be looking at a 145ish million mark before the luxury tax starts. 

2024 your big name free agent this summer comes off the books and Butler is an expiring contract so you can look to transition into a new roster construction around almost 27 year old Isaac and 26 year old Bamba

Long story short we'll definitely be under the tax for the 19-20 and 20-21 seasons. We'll have a choice on if we want to spend big in 21-22, we'll be over the tax 22-23 and we'll rebuild in 23-24 successfully avoiding the repeater tax for all years of Butler's deal. 

Money isn't an issue when two of the main pieces are on rookie deals and you signed a third piece to a cap friendly decreasing contract. 

 

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The only way money is going to kill you (with the exception of injury) is if you have to give Gordon, Bamba, and Isaac near max deals. And if you're in the position where you have to choose between max contract players, what a great dilemma to have. 

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lol again, why trade for him now with all these complicated scenarios when you can keep what you have to make moves for next offseason and woo him then. Ross and Vuc are off the books, and Mozgov and Fournier have one year left making them much easier to move. Butler doesn't guarantee us a playoff spot either. 

 

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