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2018 Official Offseason Thread

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2 hours ago, Jason Funderburker said:

Hennigan was certainly the worst GM we have ever had and probably one of the worst in nba history 

I don't think he made poor personal decisions as much as he just filled in a bubble to move on to the next problem

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3 hours ago, Magicpassion said:

I agree, I think Alex had a hand in that. I remember when Frank came aboard Alex said he would not be part of personnel decisions, interesting. It was partly all of our fault with our incessive complaining for a better product. 

We will never blame ourselves or admit when were wrong

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8 hours ago, Jason Funderburker said:

Hennigan was certainly the worst GM we have ever had and probably one of the worst in nba history 

Yep. Dude kept doubling down on his mistakes.

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6 hours ago, Magicpassion said:

I agree, I think Alex had a hand in that. I remember when Frank came aboard Alex said he would not be part of personnel decisions, interesting. It was partly all of our fault with our incessive complaining for a better product. 

Yeah.  Fans should always be satisfied with a lousy product.  Who do they think they are?

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20 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

Yeah.  Fans should always be satisfied with a lousy product.  Who do they think they are?

Product was alright before we started dumping guys without replacing them. Could have built on the 35 win season better. 

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8 hours ago, J-Mac said:

I blame Alex, Henny had an eye for talent and tried to build a team that would be good for a long time. But Alex tried to rush the process

Except we didn't rush the process so much as sabotage it. If anything, our problem was that Hennigan had too much patience with certain players.

6 hours ago, Magicpassion said:

I agree, I think Alex had a hand in that. I remember when Frank came aboard Alex said he would not be part of personnel decisions, interesting. It was partly all of our fault with our incessive complaining for a better product. 

Alex had a hand in what? The team improving every year? It certainly was interesting that once Alex said he would not be part of personnel decisions Hennigan immediately went crazy and *****ed up the roster that had been steadily improving, including trading our best player for scraps. The problem wasn't the people who wanted a better product (we were getting that, just slower than anyone liked), it was the idiot who *****ed that up.

 

Seriously, what in the world did Rob Hennigan ever do to make so many people love him so much? And what did Alex do to make you all hate him so much?

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2 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Product was alright before we started dumping guys without replacing them. Could have built on the 35 win season better. 

eggs - *****ing - zactly!!!

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3 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said:

Except we didn't rush the process so much as sabotage it. If anything, our problem was that Hennigan had too much patience with certain players.

Alex had a hand in what? The team improving every year? It certainly was interesting that once Alex said he would not be part of personnel decisions Hennigan immediately went crazy and *****ed up the roster that had been steadily improving, including trading our best player for scraps. The problem wasn't the people who wanted a better product (we were getting that, just slower than anyone liked), it was the idiot who *****ed that up.

 

Seriously, what in the world did Rob Hennigan ever do to make so many people love him so much? And what did Alex do to make you all hate him so much?

Rob got Nicholson and o'quinn his first draft and they outperformed their draft slots. 

Then traded half a year of Redick for Harris. 

Then made the right pick in oladipo which wasn't consensus. McLemore, Burke, and Noel were all pushed for. 

Found Dedmon on a 10 day

Reached for Gordon over 5 guys that he's outperformed (and we all wanted more than him)

Traded expiring afflalo for Fournier

He was killing it at this point. 

Then skiles went to martins and devos to campaign for the job and things fell apart. Some was corporate intervention. Some was coaching power struggles. Others were misevaluation by hennigan. 

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19 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Rob got Nicholson and o'quinn his first draft and they outperformed their draft slots. 

Then traded half a year of Redick for Harris. 

Then made the right pick in oladipo which wasn't consensus. McLemore, Burke, and Noel were all pushed for. 

Found Dedmon on a 10 day

Reached for Gordon over 5 guys that he's outperformed (and we all wanted more than him)

Traded expiring afflalo for Fournier

He was killing it at this point. 

Then skiles went to martins and devos to campaign for the job and things fell apart. Some was corporate intervention. Some was coaching power struggles. Others were misevaluation by hennigan. 

Good points, except the last one. We've discussed our differences there before.

 

I guess I just look at most of those things as Rob being a good scout. He was, and I'm sure he still is. But scouts aren't necessarily good GM's. The guy found good talent, but he never understood what to do with it. In fact, deciding what to do with players long-term (as big a part of being a good GM as finding them in the first place), Hennigan seemed to ***** up every single time. He signed Harris long-term, but then traded him for nothing (I know, I know, this was actually all Skiles' fault, because Skiles cried to Martins for specifically that trade... or something); he chose Payton and Fournier over Dipo; he re-signed Fournier during a restricted FA before Fournier even had an offer; he forced a position change on our most promising talent during his third season. He built a team around Payton, Fournier, and Vuc, for Christ's sake. Almost all of the long-term roster moves this guy made were awful. The only things he did fairly well long-term were Vuc's contract and maybe Harris' contract before he *****ed that up.

 

And I still don't know why Martins is so hated.

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6 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said:

Good points, except the last one. We've discussed our differences there before.

 

I guess I just look at most of those things as Rob being a good scout. He was, and I'm sure he still is. But scouts aren't necessarily good GM's. The guy found good talent, but he never understood what to do with it. In fact, deciding what to do with players long-term (as big a part of being a good GM as finding them in the first place), Hennigan seemed to ***** up every single time. He signed Harris long-term, but then traded him for nothing (I know, I know, this was actually all Skiles' fault, because Skiles cried to Martins for specifically that trade... or something); he chose Payton and Fournier over Dipo; he re-signed Fournier during a restricted FA before Fournier even had an offer; he forced a position change on our most promising talent during his third season. He built a team around Payton, Fournier, and Vuc, for Christ's sake. Almost all of the long-term roster moves this guy made were awful. The only things he did fairly well long-term were Vuc's contract and maybe Harris' contract before he *****ed that up.

 

And I still don't know why Martins is so hated.

Van Gundy said the ‘culture and values’ instilled under former GM Otis Smith and former CEO Bob Vander Weide changed after Vander Weide retired and Martins was promoted to CEO. ‘When Bob left, it really became Alex over everything. I’ll take my share of the blame and management needs to take theirs,’ 

 

https://www.slamonline.com/uncategorized/stan-van-gundy-blasts-orlando-magic-ceo-alex-martins/

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37 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Van Gundy said the ‘culture and values’ instilled under former GM Otis Smith and former CEO Bob Vander Weide changed after Vander Weide retired and Martins was promoted to CEO. ‘When Bob left, it really became Alex over everything. I’ll take my share of the blame and management needs to take theirs,’ 

 

https://www.slamonline.com/uncategorized/stan-van-gundy-blasts-orlando-magic-ceo-alex-martins/

Sure, but I take that with a grain of salt. Van Gundy has every reason to dislike Martins for the way he was fired (the only reason I don't like him much, personally). But with a situation so personal, I don't tend to take someone's word for something when it comes to speaking about someone's job competency. Now maybe Stan's right. Maybe Martins is bad at his job. But I'll need more than Stan's word on that, since Stan has reason to be biased against Martins. And things seemed to already be going to crap behind the scenes before Martins got promoted to CEO.

 

I know Hennigan was bad at his job, because I can see the direct results. I know Skiles was at least okay as a coach, because I saw Orlando's win total go up by ten games. I know he quit his job, because I read quotes from him directly that I don't have any reason to disbelieve. I can speculate why Hennigan was bad (because he's a good scout, but an idiot GM). I can speculate why Skiles quit (because he's an impatient douche). But speculating about Martins requires too much, because I can't really draw any conclusions about the direct results of Martins' job. Now, if Hammond and Weltman turn out to be as bad as Hennigan, then I'll gladly blame Martins, because then I can see a pattern of bad hiring (the only direct result I can see of his job at all).

 

I'm just not willing to judge Martins yet over Stan's clearly biased statement and one bad hire.

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