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Mauro Pedrosa

2018 Watch the Playoffs thread

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5 hours ago, HeHateMe said:

Huh? 

Jordan actually had to play against good players and teams in the east as well as the finals. 

Lebron wasn’t on a super team with the heat? 

Lol what?

First of all, MJ absolutely played on a super team. In every single one of his finals appearances the Bulls were the favorite. He played against the corpse of the showtime Lakers, and then a bunch of teams with one good player, and then the Jazz twice, who had two good players.

Lebron in the finals, outside of the Mavericks, has played against teams who had at least 3 guys who will likely be in the Hall of Fame. I don’t much care about the eastern conference, because 6-0 is really the only argument for Jordan, but he also had a long run against the Celtics featuring 3 HoFers themselves. His teams have been the underdogs in 7 of their 9 finals appearances, and his first and most recent finals appearance teams are by a large margin worse than any team Jordan was ever on - worse than any of the Jordan Wizard teams which never reached he finals.

And it goes beyond just the all-time greats. Each year that passes, players grow farther and farther away from those playing in Jordan’s era I terms of size, speed, athleticism, and general ability. This is not to say that there are not players then and now who are comparable on those terms, but by and large LeBron played against players who are bigger, faster, more athletic, and more skilled than MJ did, and I don’t think anyone would argue that. MJ also benefited from having the best coach in the game in his run. LeBron is usually playing against the best coach in the game.

Take it lower than that, to an individual level. There is no skill Jordan possessed that LeBron does not, but LeBron is bigger, stronger, more athletic, probably a better passer and defender, and definitely a better post player. 

 

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This is admittedly 100% hyperbole, and I’m not sure I actually believe it, but:

if Jordan played today I think he is viewed more a Russell Westbrook-level player than someone near LeBron, or even near Durant

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18 minutes ago, Jason Funderburker said:

This is admittedly 100% hyperbole, and I’m not sure I actually believe it, but:

if Jordan played today I think he is viewed more a Russell Westbrook-level player than someone near LeBron, or even near Durant

lol

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HeHateMe    479
2 hours ago, Jason Funderburker said:

This is admittedly 100% hyperbole, and I’m not sure I actually believe it, but:

if Jordan played today I think he is viewed more a Russell Westbrook-level player than someone near LeBron, or even near Durant

Yikes. Hopefully alcohol was involved while this was typed up.   

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?4thewin    1,582
4 hours ago, Jason Funderburker said:

Lol what?

First of all, MJ absolutely played on a super team. In every single one of his finals appearances the Bulls were the favorite. He played against the corpse of the showtime Lakers, and then a bunch of teams with one good player, and then the Jazz twice, who had two good players.

Lebron in the finals, outside of the Mavericks, has played against teams who had at least 3 guys who will likely be in the Hall of Fame. I don’t much care about the eastern conference, because 6-0 is really the only argument for Jordan, but he also had a long run against the Celtics featuring 3 HoFers themselves. His teams have been the underdogs in 7 of their 9 finals appearances, and his first and most recent finals appearance teams are by a large margin worse than any team Jordan was ever on - worse than any of the Jordan Wizard teams which never reached he finals.

And it goes beyond just the all-time greats. Each year that passes, players grow farther and farther away from those playing in Jordan’s era I terms of size, speed, athleticism, and general ability. This is not to say that there are not players then and now who are comparable on those terms, but by and large LeBron played against players who are bigger, faster, more athletic, and more skilled than MJ did, and I don’t think anyone would argue that. MJ also benefited from having the best coach in the game in his run. LeBron is usually playing against the best coach in the game.

Take it lower than that, to an individual level. There is no skill Jordan possessed that LeBron does not, but LeBron is bigger, stronger, more athletic, probably a better passer and defender, and definitely a better post player. 

 

Uhh 72-10 Chicago had to beat the Shaq penny magic, the Kemp Payton sonics, and the mourning hardaway heat in one playoffs. Those aren't teams with one good player lol. 

The 1993 bulls won against the Barkley Kevin Johnson Dan Majerle sun's, the Nance Daugherty Wilkins Price Cavs.

The 91 bulls had to beat the bad boy Pistons, the Barkley Hawkins sixers.

Those aren't teams with one good player.

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Justin Jaudon    147
5 hours ago, Jason Funderburker said:

Lol what?

First of all, MJ absolutely played on a super team. In every single one of his finals appearances the Bulls were the favorite. He played against the corpse of the showtime Lakers, and then a bunch of teams with one good player, and then the Jazz twice, who had two good players.

Lebron in the finals, outside of the Mavericks, has played against teams who had at least 3 guys who will likely be in the Hall of Fame. I don’t much care about the eastern conference, because 6-0 is really the only argument for Jordan, but he also had a long run against the Celtics featuring 3 HoFers themselves. His teams have been the underdogs in 7 of their 9 finals appearances, and his first and most recent finals appearance teams are by a large margin worse than any team Jordan was ever on - worse than any of the Jordan Wizard teams which never reached he finals.

And it goes beyond just the all-time greats. Each year that passes, players grow farther and farther away from those playing in Jordan’s era I terms of size, speed, athleticism, and general ability. This is not to say that there are not players then and now who are comparable on those terms, but by and large LeBron played against players who are bigger, faster, more athletic, and more skilled than MJ did, and I don’t think anyone would argue that. MJ also benefited from having the best coach in the game in his run. LeBron is usually playing against the best coach in the game.

Take it lower than that, to an individual level. There is no skill Jordan possessed that LeBron does not, but LeBron is bigger, stronger, more athletic, probably a better passer and defender, and definitely a better post player. 

 

This is the worst "LeBron is better than Jordan" post I've seen in a while. LeBron only favorite for 2 finals? Every year in Miami he was the favorite. And how does him not being a favorite to win make him better than MJ? Please do explain that logic. MJ didn't play against anybody? The East was a gauntlet back then. Pistons, Knicks, Magic, Pacers, plus Hornets, Heat, etc. Played against prime Drexler/great supporting cast in Portland, Barkley/KJ, Payton/Kemp, Malone/Stockton in the West. Players are bigger now? Okay, so I guess that means Wilt was garbage, by that logic. Seriously, go sober up.

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1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

Uhh 72-10 Chicago had to beat the Shaq penny magic, the Kemp Payton sonics, and the mourning hardaway heat in one playoffs. Those aren't teams with one good player lol. 

The 1993 bulls won against the Barkley Kevin Johnson Dan Majerle sun's, the Nance Daugherty Wilkins Price Cavs.

The 91 bulls had to beat the bad boy Pistons, the Barkley Hawkins sixers.

Those aren't teams with one good player.

And he single-handedly took down the Monstars with one of the worst supporting casts in the history of basketball.

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Michael Jordan WAS the Bulls in the same way that LeBron IS the Cavs. I am blessed to be old enough to have seen both play in person. Saw Jordan many times, he was amazing. In my opinion in a one on one game if LeBron was not allowed to offensive foul Jordan would be able to defend him to a certain extent but I think LeBron would have a pretty hard time on D with MJ's quickness.

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HeHateMe    479
7 minutes ago, ROCK LEGENDS PHOTOGRAPHERS said:

Michael Jordan WAS the Bulls in the same way that LeBron IS the Cavs. I am blessed to be old enough to have seen both play in person. Saw Jordan many times, he was amazing. In my opinion in a one on one game if LeBron was not allowed to offensive foul Jordan would be able to defend him to a certain extent but I think LeBron would have a pretty hard time on D with MJ's quickness.

This is the issue with the whole mj Lebron debate is that most the people that are saying Lebron is clearly better are 25<. 

Im only 29 so I didn’t really understand much of what I was watching with Jordan but I do remember him dominating specifically the Utah series stands out to me. 

But most everyone I talk to who was old enough to really watch Jordan says he’s clearly better. Not everyone but it’s leaning heavily in Jordan’s favor. People just don’t realize how unstoppable he was. It was so much harder back then too with how defense was played and officiated vs today. Saying MJ would be an inefficient player like Westbrook is a horrid take. MJ would would score 40 a night today. And let’s not forget what a freak he was on D too. Lebron never even guarded Durant in the finals. 

Lebron is an unreal player but he just has more flaws than Mj did. 

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5 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

Uhh 72-10 Chicago had to beat the Shaq penny magic, the Kemp Payton sonics, and the mourning hardaway heat in one playoffs. Those aren't teams with one good player lol. 

The 1993 bulls won against the Barkley Kevin Johnson Dan Majerle sun's, the Nance Daugherty Wilkins Price Cavs.

The 91 bulls had to beat the bad boy Pistons, the Barkley Hawkins sixers.

Those aren't teams with one good player.

I should have clarified by ‘Good players’ I meant Hall of Famers. Both players have gone up against very good non-HoFers in their time, but the how good takes a lot more effort than going off the top of my head. Players in the Hall makes it easier and is IMO a good barometer for the overall team quality.

And as I said, I don’t really care when jordan played in the east. The LBJ-MJ debate comes down to Finals record, so east performance is not really that important 

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1 minute ago, HeHateMe said:

This is the issue with the whole mj Lebron debate is that most the people that are saying Lebron is clearly better are 25<. 

Im only 29 so I didn’t really understand much of what I was watching with Jordan but I do remember him dominating specifically the Utah series stands out to me. 

But most everyone I talk to who was old enough to really watch Jordan says he’s clearly better. Not everyone but it’s leaning heavily in Jordan’s favor. People just don’t realize how unstoppable he was. It was so much harder back then too with how defense was played and officiated vs today. Saying MJ would be an inefficient player like Westbrook is a horrid take. MJ would would score 40 a night today. And let’s not forget what a freak he was on D too. Lebron never even guarded Durant in the finals. 

Players were allowed to play a lot more physical back then and there weren't as many "superstar calls" either. Having seen a lot of old school players and as much of the new breed I would have to say the matchups would favor the old school guys playing by the old rules and the new school guys playing by today's rules. There were some really tough players back in the day, today, not so many. I don't think there will ever be another team like the Detroit "bad boys" again. Think Draymond tough in ever position and then some.

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HeHateMe    479
2 minutes ago, Jason Funderburker said:

I should have clarified by ‘Good players’ I meant Hall of Famers. Both players have gone up against very good non-HoFers in their time, but the how good takes a lot more effort than going off the top of my head. Players in the Hall makes it easier and is IMO a good barometer for the overall team quality.

And as I said, I don’t really care when jordan played in the east. The LBJ-MJ debate comes down to Finals record, so east performance is not really that important 

If it comes down to finals record than how is 3-6 better than 6-0? 

 

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