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Mauro Pedrosa

Clifford the big magic coach

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30 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

I feel like we just re-hired Vogel. 

I didn’t really care who we hired I just wanted a young guy that would play young players. 

Eh. Hard to say he won't play young players when we're only looking at the context of the 17-18 hornets. If you're given a playoffs or bust edict from management you aren't going to work through rookie growing pains. 

The reason I don't like to judge coaching candidates is it's extremely difficult to remove their ability from the context  built around the roster and franchise situation. So everything with Clifford is viewed through a lens of a rotation that incorporates Dwight, Zeller, kaminsky. So we can't really apply that philosophy to the magic. 

If he coaches to this roster then we'll be good. If he sticks to a system he'll fail. We have to see what he'll do but you'd hope the interview process included a discussion of his philosophies applied to the magic and those philosophies were applicable to 2018+. 

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1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

So Clifford teams were routinely average to above average on both sides of the ball. 13th/16th last year 14/14 in 17, 9/8 in 16. 

You'd think that would lead to more wins. So is that fantastic coaching, always keeping his teams in games that the players just can't win? Or is that flawed late game coaching?

I think most of us would be thrilled with average right now compared to what we have been dealing with over the last several years. Average in the league is probably playoffs in the east. I would have to guess that management talked to him at length about philosophies on where we want to go.

Wasn't he a shooting coach when he was here before?

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He ran his offense through Al Jefferson for 2 1/2 years and used Zeller/Kaminsky/Spencer Hawes before Dwight. We are stuck with Vuc. 

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2 minutes ago, Tank Vogel said:

He ran his offense through Al Jefferson for 2 1/2 years and used Zeller/Kaminsky/Spencer Hawes before Dwight. We are stuck with Vuc. 

I just died a little inside

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2 minutes ago, Tank Vogel said:

He ran his offense through Al Jefferson for 2 1/2 years and used Zeller/Kaminsky/Spencer Hawes before Dwight. We are stuck with Vuc. 

yikes

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People misunderstand why Vogel didn't work here. 

Vogel didn't fail because he suddenly became a ****ty coach. Vogel failed because he tried to turn the 16-17 magic into the pacers despite not having a roster that conformed to that vision and a league philosophy that exploited that philosophy. Patience is Vogel's strength but it totally *****ed him over because it took him forever to make strategic adjustments. 

He made the adjustments last summer but didn't have the depth to survive injuries and roster flaws capped the ceiling of our defense. 

So, it's inappropriate to state Clifford is another Vogel until we have evidence he's unable to adjust his plan to best suit our roster. And he might have that flaw! I can't honestly say he doesn't. But we have no clue at this juncture that he's anything other than a well respected coach that our management just hired and you'd expect that they're competent enough to understand what they should look for. 

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5 minutes ago, Tank Vogel said:

He ran his offense through Al Jefferson for 2 1/2 years and used Zeller/Kaminsky/Spencer Hawes before Dwight. We are stuck with Vuc. 

That's more of a Rich Cho criticism than a Clifford criticism. You can only play to the strengths of the roster given to you. 

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My problem with Vogel is that I know he cosigned the Oladipo trade and that somehow he could not see what we all could seen which was Mario's potential from his first season. He literally let Mario ride the pine while playing Shelvin Mack as his 2nd guard option with Augustin on the court.

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7 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

That's more of a Rich Cho criticism than a Clifford criticism. You can only play to the strengths of the roster given to you. 

How much of that roster was tailored to what Clifford wanted, in the same vein that we gave Frank Vogel a bunch of Cs? He is a Van Gundy disciple.

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It will be a disaster if there is pressure on him to make the playoffs for the next 2 or 3 years (basically the same thing Vogel had to deal with). Our roster is full of terrible parts and we need to focus on the youth. Trying to contend with the "vets" we have won't take us anywhere good

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