Brooklyn Nets @ Magic Wednesday, 3/28 @ 7:00 p.m.

[JJZFL 618]

Just now, Justin Jaudon said:

Interesting tidbit for everyone who thinks Vuc is our only problem on D. In the Skiles year, we were a decent defensive team with Vuc starting 60 games, playing 31 min a game (and Fournier starting over 70, for that matter). In Vaughn's second year, we were a decent defensive team with Vuc starting 57 games and playing 31 min a game. Perhaps there's more to it than Vuc.

Or perhaps the constant losing has worn Vuch down to a shell of what he was.  One of the downsides that’s not talked about enough of losing “meaningless”games year after year is that it builds a losing mindset and fosters bad habits. 

[JJZFL 618]

2 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

Because we were talking about who to run the offense through.

If the guy is so toxic to the team overall that he’s better on the bench, then you can’t run the offense through him.  Can’t make the decision in a vacuum. 

[Murphy13 185]

Just now, JJZFL said:

Or perhaps the constant losing has worn Vuch down to a shell of what he was.  One of the downsides that’s not talked about enough of losing “meaningless”games year after year is that it builds a losing mindset and fosters bad habits. 

It’s come up before.  Another aspect of this is that Nik has been the number one option for years on a team when he should be a 2 or 3.  He’s probably ready to not be the focus of the other teams’ game plan.  He’d probably have more energy to be more than a matador on defense.  It’s tough to be the go to scoring option and play defense.

[Murphy13 185]

2 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

If the guy is so toxic to the team overall that he’s better on the bench, then you can’t run the offense through him.  Can’t make the decision in a vacuum. 

 I’m not sure that’s he’s either toxic or a bench player on this team.  The only argument for not running the offense through him on our current team is that we’re trying to lose.  If you’re trying to win you feed the offensively adept big man and surround him with 3 and D.  There is no vacuum here, it’s the reality we’re dealing with.  We’ve got nothing built for winning.

[JJZFL 618]

Just now, Murphy13 said:

 I’m not sure that’s he’s either toxic or a bench player on this team.  The only argument for not running the offense through him on our current team is that we’re trying to lose.  If you’re trying to win you feed the offensively adept big man and surround him with 3 and D.  There is no vacuum here, it’s the reality we’re dealing with.  We’ve got nothing built for winning.

Again our w-l was better when he was out. I thought our offense looked more fluid without him also.  Ball stops when he gets it. 

Argument for keeping him in is if you want to lose. 

[Murphy13 185]

I’m not arguing either way, I have no vested interest in any of our players except Isaac, but what is the record breakdown with and without him? You make it sound like it’s significant but I suspect we sucked either way and again you might be splitting hairs to favor opinion.    

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

24 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

I’m not arguing either way, I have no vested interest in any of our players except Isaac, but what is the record breakdown with and without him? You make it sound like it’s significant but I suspect we sucked either way and again you might be splitting hairs to favor opinion.    

11-14

But really that's inflated by our good start.  He didn't get the opportunity to lose.  

It's a shame we didn't get a healthy year.  I think we could have competed for a playoff spot.  

[JJZFL 618]

7 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

I’m not arguing either way, I have no vested interest in any of our players except Isaac, but what is the record breakdown with and without him? You make it sound like it’s significant but I suspect we sucked either way and again you might be splitting hairs to favor opinion.    

29% when he’s in, 30% when he’s out. Doesn’t sound significant.  Except there was an adjustment period when Vuch first went out, and Birch started playing a lot of minutes. By the end of that, we were playing well, the effort looked great, and we went 6-8 in the 14 games before Vuch returned.  Since then of course, we’ve looked horrible and the w-l reflects that. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

1 hour ago, Justin Jaudon said:

Interesting tidbit for everyone who thinks Vuc is our only problem on D. In the Skiles year, we were a decent defensive team with Vuc starting 60 games, playing 31 min a game (and Fournier starting over 70, for that matter). In Vaughn's second year, we were a decent defensive team with Vuc starting 57 games and playing 31 min a game. Perhaps there's more to it than Vuc.

No.  You might forget that skiles had to change his entire defense to cover for vucevic.  We also were worse on defense with vucevic on the court and ok  with dedmon. 

Also there's been an offensive renaissance these last couple years that exacerbates vucevic's weakness. So his defense is more pronounced.  

[Magicfan1987 266]

1 hour ago, Justin Jaudon said:

Interesting tidbit for everyone who thinks Vuc is our only problem on D. In the Skiles year, we were a decent defensive team with Vuc starting 60 games, playing 31 min a game (and Fournier starting over 70, for that matter). In Vaughn's second year, we were a decent defensive team with Vuc starting 57 games and playing 31 min a game. Perhaps there's more to it than Vuc.

Vucs d is demoralizing for his teammates.  center should be the big brother that always helps his little brothers out. Vuc let's his little brothers get bullied and gets bullied himself 

[Justin Jaudon 221]

3 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

No.  You might forget that skiles had to change his entire defense to cover for vucevic.  We also were worse on defense with vucevic on the court and ok  with dedmon. 

Also there's been an offensive renaissance these last couple years that exacerbates vucevic's weakness. So his defense is more pronounced.  

I'm not trying to say that Vuc is a good defender, or even an an average one. I'm suggesting that others have managed to muster decent defense with Vuc as a starter. Vuc clearly is a problem, and he was a problem for Skiles, as you say. I'm just saying that we should recognize that there have been probably a lot more problems with our defense than just him. Maybe getting rid of Payton and Vuc together will be enough. I hope so. But I'm not convinced this will do it. Frank Vogel may be almost as much of a problem.

[A Better DJ & Photographer 456]

13 hours ago, JJZFL said:

I believe team has a better w-l when Vuch doesn’t play. 

I apologize Murphy13, I thought we were talking about this ^^^