Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, Soul Bro said: Might that same thinking apply to Bagley? No. Bagley is very athletic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, Murphy13 said: That's reasonable but it's important to understand the difference between an inability to play defense at the college level as a true freshman and whether it was ever a point of focus for him. That zone Duke ran works for college but leaves holes that falls on the frontcourt 'defenders' and makes defensive metrics at the college level less of a prognosticator for NBA success. His elite athleticism gives him flexibility to improve, you don't have to be a shut down defender to play front court in the NBA. You just have to fit your team dynamic and make enough happen on offense to cover mistakes. The other side of the coin is why Jackson isn't rated as highly by some as others. Yeah but the difference is Duke never plays zone. It's not what they want to do historically. They were forced to switch to zone when Bagley was so incredibly bad at playing man on the perimeter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Odin 137 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, ?4thewin said: Yeah but the difference is Duke never plays zone. It's not what they want to do historically. They were forced to switch to zone when Bagley was so incredibly bad at playing man on the perimeter. Not only that, but I believe this is the same excuse/thought for the high draft picks on the Timberwolves. I think guys that are going to be really good at defense are going to come into the league with the instincts and abilities to play defense. Otherwise you are probably at best going to get mediocre defense from them. That isn't what you want from the PF/C spot. I would think that our years with Vuch at C would have told us that. (Yes, I know Vuch isn't that athletic, but there is always that promise of better defense that gets washed away in the December rain) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 Scouts suggest that Bagley needs to go to a team that has a rim protecting 5 that operates on the perimeter on offense in order to cover for his deficiencies while allowing him to play the traditional center role on offense in order to maximize his strengths. However, as we've seen playing ibaka with vucevic, teams can scheme a way to move your rim protector away from the rim and make your bad defender defend in space on an island. So I disagree with the hypothesis that you can just stick a "unicorn" next to Bagley and everything will be fine unless that unicorn is Anthony Davis. Though at that point why marginalize Davis on offense just to fit in Bagley? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicFan1234 124 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 57 minutes ago, Murphy13 said: If PHX is picking ahead of us, it does no good to consider Doncic. He is probably destined for PHX. Ayton will go #1 unless PHX is there then he'll be 2. Bagley will go three while Bamba, Porter, and Jackson battle it out for 4-6. The most interesting draft is if PHX falls to 4. I have a feeling we get the fifth or sixth pick and end up taking whichever of those 3 fall. I don't see us reaching for other players, though we could trade down if Young, Bridges, Sexton, etc are compelling. Why would Doncic go to Suns if Bender is playing the same position as Doncic? I think Suns are going to draft Ayers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 31 minutes ago, ?4thewin said: Yeah but the difference is Duke never plays zone. It's not what they want to do historically. They were forced to switch to zone when Bagley was so incredibly bad at playing man on the perimeter. According to Coach K the zone was implemented to take advantage of their unique frontcourt length and athleticism. Carter was the guy covering the PNR when things went south against UNC so I don't think Bagley was specifically the reason for the change. Every freshman will be caught out of position or make mistakes. His play and improvement throughout the second half of the season are enough to perhaps not focus so much on his perceived defensive shortcomings. His reality is that he produced against good players when it mattered while others didn't. I understand the desire for good frontcourt defense, it's important to not overrate it to the point where rarer skills are ignored in favor of defensive projectability. I don't think Bagley's relative ability to guard man to man on the perimeter will have any effect on what he'll become as a player. As far as weaknesses go, that's about as good as they come. At least he's not going to have trouble scoring at the NBA level like Jackson will. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmmagicfan 301 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, MagicFan1234 said: Why would Doncic go to Suns if Bender is playing the same position as Doncic? I think Suns are going to draft Ayers I assume you mean Ayton, but they would draft Doncic for the same reason they might draft Ayton. Either is better than the player they currently have in that position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicFan1234 124 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said: I assume you mean Ayton, but they would draft Doncic for the same reason they might draft Ayton. Either is better than the player they currently have in that position. I mean Ayton, my mistake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicfan1987 266 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Murphy13 said: That's reasonable but it's important to understand the difference between an inability to play defense at the college level as a true freshman and whether it was ever a point of focus for him. That zone Duke ran works for college but leaves holes that falls on the frontcourt 'defenders' and makes defensive metrics at the college level less of a prognosticator for NBA success. His elite athleticism gives him flexibility to improve, you don't have to be a shut down defender to play front court in the NBA. You just have to fit your team dynamic and make enough happen on offense to cover mistakes. The other side of the coin is why Jackson isn't rated as highly by some as others. soot on well said sir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 1 hour ago, MagicFan1234 said: Why would Doncic go to Suns if Bender is playing the same position as Doncic? I think Suns are going to draft Ayers Bender does not play the same position, and when you're as bad as they (we) are you don't not draft someone bc they play the same position as Bender. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicfan1987 266 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 1 hour ago, MagicFan1234 said: Why would Doncic go to Suns if Bender is playing the same position as Doncic? I think Suns are going to draft Ayers Sun's new coach is the coach for Doncic's Olympic or eurobasket team also, Doncic is a guard bender is a big Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicFan1234 124 Report post Posted May 15, 2018 Just now, Magicfan1987 said: Sun's new coach is the coach for Doncic's Olympic or eurobasket team I know that but that does not mean Suns are going to draft Doncic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
