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Bauncey Chillups

2018 NBA Draft Thread

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Just now, ML6 said:

I mean after 3 minutes of google searching here's a quote about Jrue Holiday:

“I always tell him, ‘You can be as good as you want to be,’” says McKie. “Any time you have a guy that has the tools and loves to be in the gym, at some point they’re ready to just take off.”  http://www.slamonline.com/nba/coach-jrue-holiday-can-be-as-good-as-he-wants-to-be/

 

It's all the same man.  This is semantics and sports cliché stuff.  You're reading too deeply between the lines and creating something that so far isn't there.

That is not the same quote at all. That Jrue quote is sports cliche. But there is no questioning his drive. In fact he says he loves to be in the gym in that quote. I feel like we heard a ton about Gordon’s drive to be great after his rookie year. From others and from him. Where is that for Isaac?

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7 minutes ago, Mack1085 said:

I think people say this stuff when the drive isn’t clear. When it is super clear the GM says it to assuage the concerns of fans. This is a statement that hedges and gives him some cover. It gives me reason to question his drive when I’m also hearing Gordon say he needs to commit to the game. And I don’t recall hearing questions about Gordon’s drive or Oladipo’s drive after their rookie years. 

 

But please, prove me wrong and show me this is a normal thing by sharing those quotes about franchise players who had their drive and commitment to the game called out after their rookie season. I’m not rooting against Isaac. I want him to be great. But if his GM and teammates aren’t sure he does, neither am I. 

Yeah you're 100% wrong here. This is a common statement to suggest he has a ceiling that is extremely high if he puts the work in. Not that he doesn't want to put the work in. 

“The guy is the modern-day big man,” Houston Rockets assistant coach Roy Rogers said. “There really is no weakness in his game.

“I mean, it’s up to him how good he wants to be. Not only can he be the best big in the league, he can be one of the best bigs to ever play the game, just because he is so talented.”

Embiid doesn’t disagree. When asked what he means by having “a long way to go,” he didn’t hesitate.

“I really feel like I have the potential, and I’m not even kidding about it, I have the potential to be the best player in the league,” Embiid said.

 

“The Greek Freak, I think, is a force. I've never seen anything like him,” Durant said. “His ceiling is probably ... he could end up being the best player to ever play if he really wanted to.

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24 minutes ago, Mack1085 said:

That is not the same quote at all. That Jrue quote is sports cliche. But there is no questioning his drive. In fact he says he loves to be in the gym in that quote. I feel like we heard a ton about Gordon’s drive to be great after his rookie year. From others and from him. Where is that for Isaac?

"He can be as good as he wants to be" and "how much does he want to be great" are just different ways of saying the same thing.  No one is questioning Isaac's drive as you're suggesting.  That's the whole difference between your argument and mine.  You are extrapolating the quotes as questioning his drive but they aren't. 

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3 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Yeah you're 100% wrong here. This is a common statement to suggest he has a ceiling that is extremely high if he puts the work in. Not that he doesn't want to put the work in. 

“The guy is the modern-day big man,” Houston Rockets assistant coach Roy Rogers said. “There really is no weakness in his game.

“I mean, it’s up to him how good he wants to be. Not only can he be the best big in the league, he can be one of the best bigs to ever play the game, just because he is so talented.”

Embiid doesn’t disagree. When asked what he means by having “a long way to go,” he didn’t hesitate.

“I really feel like I have the potential, and I’m not even kidding about it, I have the potential to be the best player in the league,” Embiid said.

 

“The Greek Freak, I think, is a force. I've never seen anything like him,” Durant said. “His ceiling is probably ... he could end up being the best player to ever play if he really wanted to.

I really don't believe those quotes are comparable. Our GM literally said "Does he want to become an All-Star?" And it was after glowing praise of him being a good kid. Not a potential all-time great. And neither of you have even acknowledged the AG comment. But that's fine - if you hear those literal questions as figurative cliches then we can agree to disagree. I don't see the drive though and at the very best your arguments only work to lessen my assertion that our GM doubts it - which isn't exactly the same thing as proving his drive to be great exists.

 

And by the way ?4thewin - it's unfortunate you feel the need to be condescending on a board where you like to make strawmen arguments and then don't acknowledge when they get challenged or exposed as flawed. Makes this a really enjoyable experience.  

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13 minutes ago, Mack1085 said:

I really don't believe those quotes are comparable. Our GM literally said "Does he want to become an All-Star?" And it was after glowing praise of him being a good kid. Not a potential all-time great. And neither of you have even acknowledged the AG comment. But that's fine - if you hear those literal questions as figurative cliches then we can agree to disagree. I don't see the drive though and at the very best your arguments only work to lessen my assertion that our GM doubts it - which isn't exactly the same thing as proving his drive to be great exists.

 

And by the way ?4thewin - it's unfortunate you feel the need to be condescending on a board where you like to make strawmen arguments and then don't acknowledge when they get challenged or exposed as flawed. Makes this a really enjoyable experience.  

Telling you you're interpreting things wrong isn't being condescending. You're just being obstinate now. 

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One of Isaac's flaws coming out was his lack of killer instinct or that he fades sometimes during games. I do not think it is unfair that Mack gets the same thing from the quote because that has been a critique of Isaac.  

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14 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Telling you you're interpreting things wrong isn't being condescending. You're just being obstinate now. 

"Yeah you're 100% wrong on this" is condescending in tone - especially when we're interpreting what someone said and not facts like 2+2=4. If you posted something from Hammond after that interview where he says, I have no doubts that Isaac has the drive to an all-time great in this league, then I would be 100% wrong. And if that quote is out there - GREAT! I'm a Magic fan! I want him to be great.

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16 minutes ago, TheNameIsOrlando said:

One of Isaac's flaws coming out was his lack of killer instinct or that he fades sometimes during games. I do not think it is unfair that Mack gets the same thing from the quote because that has been a critique of Isaac.  

Those are two different things though. On court timidness and work ethic are different questions. 

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21 minutes ago, Mack1085 said:

"Yeah you're 100% wrong on this" is condescending in tone - especially when we're interpreting what someone said and not facts like 2+2=4. If you posted something from Hammond after that interview where he says, I have no doubts that Isaac has the drive to an all-time great in this league, then I would be 100% wrong. And if that quote is out there - GREAT! I'm a Magic fan! I want him to be great.

I'm sorry that came off as condescending. That wasn't my intention

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Just now, ?4thewin said:

I'm sorry that came off as condescending. That wasn't my intention

I accept your apology. I appreciate your thoughts and takes on Magic basketball and apologize if my pushback came across as obstinate. My strawman comment was unfair to you. I recognize that a lot gets posted and it's tough to respond to every nuance of every post.

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36 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Those are two different things though. On court timidness and work ethic are different questions. 

Eehhh it all ties into a laid back approach. They’re more similar than they are different. 

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