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Payton4thewin

Magic vs Cavs

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Murphy13    138
49 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

That comment, attacking another poster without providing any rationale for what you’re saying, adds nothing of value to this discussion. 

It has been addressed by myself and others already, even in the last couple pages of this thread, I just don’t need to be repetitive in pointing it out again.  I am not attacking anyone.    The fact that he quickly writes off lotto players after 3 seasons or less (Mario, ep) demonstrates lack of proficiency in all the things I mentioned already.  If you take into consideration the several similar topics already covered just this offseason where he takes the same position then we are basically dealing with a Groundhog Day scenario..you are just noticing it now apparently.  We are on day 200+ of case in point with him.

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Payton4thewin    1,229
4 hours ago, JJZFL said:

Fair point, but two different coaches with lots of NBA experience (Skiles/Vogel) independently decided he didn’t deserve playing time, and they see a lot more of the players than we do. Doesn’t mean they’re infallible but not a strong recommendation either. I bet people were having this very same discussion about Darko. We will see if Mario has a place in the NBA. Personally I think the odds are less than 50/50. 

As an aside, plenty of other players from his draft year are having meaningful impacts for their teams. 

 skiles actually gave him a ton of time and really liked Mario. And i think, despite skiles issues,  he was really good for Mario. 

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Ibn Battuta    109
10 hours ago, Magicman28 said:

You really think that's it? Mario just didn't want to be great? The first off season he went back to Europe and played. Didn't get any off season to work on his game. He also didn't have a coach who told him what his philosophy is going to be offensively, defensively and what to work on.

Work ethic has never been questioned. He won an award for being a gym rat and take it from someone who's that as well, we apply that ethic to everything else in our lives.

I think his main problem other than being green and being yanked all the time is that he's hard on himself. His head gets in the way sometimes. 

It’s also possible that despite the work ethic and everything else, that he’s just not a good basketball player in the NBA. 

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The Boss    12
19 hours ago, Ibn Battuta said:

It’s also possible that despite the work ethic and everything else, that he’s just not a good basketball player in the NBA. 

Catching up the last couple of pages of this thread I was planning to reply and say pretty much this, funny how it was the last post of the thread.

For what it's worth, I've got a friend who is big into Euro basketball, the leagues and also the national teams, he has always said that he thinks Mario had/has a lot more talent than Saric, just didn't land in the right situation. I always had hope in Mario based on things like this but watching him over the years I'm just not sure anymore. I've seen Mario dribble the ball off his own knees and ankles, tripping over thin air, tripping over doing a spin move when no one touched him, throw passes that a 15 year old B grade kid could better just to name a few. Two of his traits that should have translated so well to the NBA was his shooting and athleticism but his shooting percentages so far are pretty bad, I would have expected him to be a 40% 3pt shooter by now (a lot of his looks are open, and so many previously average shooters are sitting over 40% these days in the league). His athleticism hasn't been impressive so far in the NBA in my opinion, just looks like the average level from someone his size/weight.

Maybe he's just not that good a player, maybe he's not a typical 5th overall pick and it was a reach and hes more like a 15-20 guy. Maybe he is good but his game just doesn't translate well to the NBA?

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Magicman28    190
16 hours ago, The Boss said:

Catching up the last couple of pages of this thread I was planning to reply and say pretty much this, funny how it was the last post of the thread.

For what it's worth, I've got a friend who is big into Euro basketball, the leagues and also the national teams, he has always said that he thinks Mario had/has a lot more talent than Saric, just didn't land in the right situation. I always had hope in Mario based on things like this but watching him over the years I'm just not sure anymore. I've seen Mario dribble the ball off his own knees and ankles, tripping over thin air, tripping over doing a spin move when no one touched him, throw passes that a 15 year old B grade kid could better just to name a few. Two of his traits that should have translated so well to the NBA was his shooting and athleticism but his shooting percentages so far are pretty bad, I would have expected him to be a 40% 3pt shooter by now (a lot of his looks are open, and so many previously average shooters are sitting over 40% these days in the league). His athleticism hasn't been impressive so far in the NBA in my opinion, just looks like the average level from someone his size/weight.

Maybe he's just not that good a player, maybe he's not a typical 5th overall pick and it was a reach and hes more like a 15-20 guy. Maybe he is good but his game just doesn't translate well to the NBA?

Ask yourself this, here's a young kid who has a nice shot, great athleticism, good court vision and awareness, so why did they change his mechanics in his 2 season, not utilize his passing and continue to develop his handles?

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Magicman28    190
1 hour ago, Ibn Battuta said:

good court vision and awareness, like that awesome pass with the 4 on 1 fast break that a high schooler could finish? 

 

You mean the pass that every PG has attempted a crap ton of times in their lives?

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Payton4thewin    1,229
1 hour ago, Ibn Battuta said:

good court vision and awareness, like that awesome pass with the 4 on 1 fast break that a high schooler could finish? 

 

A single data point is a pretty crappy argument

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JJZFL    75
17 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

A single data point is a pretty crappy argument

If only it was the only one.  

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Payton4thewin    1,229
8 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

If only it was the only one.  

Here's like 40 data points that suggest otherwise http://on.nba.com/2mgiqhg

You can have a good vision but still make bad decisions every so often. Just like vucevic has good passing vision but occasionally throws passes into the 8th row

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The Boss    12

I agree that he has a lot of vision, just sometimes maybe trying too difficult a pass too often, but I do think in time that will improve as he gets more of a feel for the NBA.

I think his development was hurt quite badly early on and I'm not sure that can recover on our team.

I find it difficult to see any situation where he is on our team next season. Why would he want to play for us with all the issues with his development and treatment over the 3 seasons (some definitely warranted). Not picking up his option is the final straw, why would he want to stick around on a team that didn't even have the faith to pick up his option which should have really been a no brainer.

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Odin    35
On 1/10/2018 at 7:06 PM, Payton4thewin said:

Here's like 40 data points that suggest otherwise http://on.nba.com/2mgiqhg

You can have a good vision but still make bad decisions every so often. Just like vucevic has good passing vision but occasionally throws passes into the 8th row

Didn't even know NBA.com had something like this- this is awesome. Helps give context to the numbers.

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