2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

[Magicman28 295]

15 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

if people want expert analysis of this discussion, the Dunc'd on Podcast did a full breakdown of all of these issues in their Orlando season preview.

basically how there's a fit problem because Simmons' best strength (defense) is best used as a starter. Vucevic is best used off the bench. but you cant start payton-simmons-gordon-biyombo.

Yup because then Payton's game/role is altered and he becomes counterproductive.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Quote

If you’re asking Shelvin Mack to be a steady force for the second unit, you’ll be in luck.

This former Butler standout can contribute nicely on both ends of the floor, providing physical defense against opposing point guards and excelling when he’s using his 6’3″ frame to fight through screens or accept a challenge in the post. Offensively, he’s not much of a shooter but still makes a decent impact with his mid-range game and penchant for savvy decision-making in the pick-and-roll.

But if you’re asking Mack to look like a starter–or really anything more than a middling option at the 1—you’ll likely be disappointed. He may be solid across the board, but no category exists in which he has significant upside just waiting to be tapped into.

https://nbamath.com/crystalbasketball-ranking-the-orlando-magic-for-2017-18/

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

11 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Yup because then Payton's game/role is altered and he becomes counterproductive.

no. not really.

 

it hurts everyone because of collective spacing. You'd be playing 4 players who have a hard time shooting.

that's why payton-fournier-ross-Gordon-biyombo

mack-simmons-whoever-Isaac-vucevic

makes the most sense.

[Magicman28 295]

19 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

no. not really.

 

it hurts everyone because of collective spacing. You'd be playing 4 players who have a hard time shooting.

that's why payton-fournier-ross-Gordon-biyombo

mack-simmons-whoever-Isaac-vucevic

makes the most sense.

What do you mean not really?

Collective spacing is what Payton needs to be effective. Surround him with guys who can't shoot and he's ineffective because the lane will be closed.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

4 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

What do you mean not really?

Collective spacing is what Payton needs to be effective. Surround him with guys who can't shoot and he's ineffective because the lane will be closed.

I don't think it hurts payton anymore than it would hurt any point guard.

Payton would still have the exact same game/role. his efficiency would drop dramatically. Your comment made it seem like we would play differently. Similar to how we discuss how playing Payton and (ball dominant wing) hurts payton because it takes the ball out of his hands.

[Magicman28 295]

Just now, Payton4thewin said:

I don't think it hurts payton anymore than it would hurt any point guard.

Payton would still have the exact same game/role. his efficiency would drop dramatically. Your comment made it seem like we would play differently. Similar to how we discuss how playing Payton and (ball dominant wing) hurts payton because it takes the ball out of his hands.

It would hurt any PG or any player who's strength is penetrating and dishing and weakness is shooting.

Payton's weakness is worse than a lot PG'S so it makes him that much more ineffective.

So yeah, we probably wouldn't necessarily play differently. We just would suck even more.

 

[Soul Bro 1,419]

I'm not sure Ross is a starter. He's crazy streaky

[Soul Bro 1,419]

I wouldn't mind this starting lineup:

EP - Simmons - Fournier - Gordon - Vooch

While I don't think Vooch is a starter, I don't think Biz is a starter, either. Thus, until Vooch is traded, I think he's our starter.

[Franchero MVP 391]

1 hour ago, Payton4thewin said:

if people want expert analysis of this discussion, the Dunc'd on Podcast did a full breakdown of all of these issues in their Orlando season preview.

basically how there's a fit problem because Simmons' best strength (defense) is best used as a starter. Vucevic is best used off the bench. but you cant start payton-simmons-gordon-biyombo.

For has been the problem for the last 5 years. Hopefully as the season progresses we can start trading and doing away with players that don't ft the mold 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

 

[Soul Bro 1,419]

4 hours ago, Payton4thewin said:

if people want expert analysis of this discussion, the Dunc'd on Podcast did a full breakdown of all of these issues in their Orlando season preview.

basically how there's a fit problem because Simmons' best strength (defense) is best used as a starter. Vucevic is best used off the bench. but you cant start payton-simmons-gordon-biyombo.

That podcast was incredibly depressing :(

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

2 minutes ago, Soul Bro said:

That podcast was incredibly depressing :(

eh. its not that depressing. Just so much depends on Payton and Gordon right now. If they become above average starters then we have a solid chance at a playoff spot because we have enough supplementary pieces to put around them.

But national people view being the 8th worst team in the league, just missing the playoffs, and being a 7th seed and losing in 4 or 5 games as practically the same thing. If you aren't contending, aren't developing a player that you could eventually contend with, or actively attempting to draft that player you're going nowhere. I don't think they're necessarily wrong. But I think there is some value in just trying to win as much as possible to get off the "worst stretch in franchise history" stink and build through free agency even if it's nothing more than a palate cleanse for more tanking later on.