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Payton4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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Mauro Pedrosa    281

Our roster is the deepest since Dwight left, but the starting lineup is still the same old BS, with Fournier-Vucevic buddy ball hamstringing our play. Just wait and see

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Gordon MVP    221
16 minutes ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

Our roster is the deepest since Dwight left, but the starting lineup is still the same old BS, with Fournier-Vucevic buddy ball hamstringing our play. Just wait and see

I hope Vuc is traded. With the bigs we have I think it's inevitable 

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21 minutes ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

Our roster is the deepest since Dwight left, but the starting lineup is still the same old BS, with Fournier-Vucevic buddy ball hamstringing our play. Just wait and see

That's why I'd do this:

Biyombo - Gordon - Ross - Fournier - Payton as SL

I'd put Vuc as the one man wrecking scoring machine in the second unit.  He'd win 6th man of the year because though he is starter quality, he's better for us off the bench, even if just to separate him from his loverboy Fournier. 

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11 hours ago, Murphy13 said:

There is no basis of fact in your post.  He was rated as the 15th best guard in the league post all star break.  Not point guard.  Guard.  He was still a top 32 guard in the entire league over the entire season.  Again, not point guard, but guard. 

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=PIE&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular Season&SeasonSegment=Post All-Star&PlayerPosition=G

Payton finished top 15 in about every advanced PG stat last season.  Before you say that it just tells you he's an averaging starting pg/middling starting pg it should be noted that 10 of those ahead of him were all stars.  And all of them were considerably older than him in basketball years.  

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/VORPe

You are really stretching by using his benching against him at this point since it was apparent that there were forces beyond quality of play at work.  The reality of the situation is that there is not a better point guard in the league that is his age or younger right now.  This is evidenced by a simple advanced stat search filtered by draft year at whatever your favorite metric site is, such as the two links above.  The closest competitor is Dennis Schroeder.  Some stats say he's better, but living in an area where the Hawks are the 'local tv' team, I can say with honesty that I'd rather have Payton.  I just realized he's a year older than Payton anyway, so he's out.  People just don't realize that it takes a lot of time to be a very good pg.  Players like CP3 don't count, they are generational talent.  

 

TL;DR version: You're full of crap.  

I approve this message!  This new management seem smart and they kept him.  I like this team. 

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Mauro Pedrosa    281
33 minutes ago, Gordon MVP said:

I hope Vuc is traded. With the bigs we have I think it's inevitable 

Agreed. I think Fournier has potential and would be better in an offense without Vuc

28 minutes ago, Catalina Maria said:

That's why I'd do this:

Biyombo - Gordon - Ross - Fournier - Payton as SL

I'd put Vuc as the one man wrecking scoring machine in the second unit.  He'd win 6th man of the year because though he is starter quality, he's better for us off the bench, even if just to separate him from his loverboy Fournier. 

That would be my starting lineup as well

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Magicman28    134
1 hour ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

Our roster is the deepest since Dwight left, but the starting lineup is still the same old BS, with Fournier-Vucevic buddy ball hamstringing our play. Just wait and see

Post all star, that wasn't as much as an issue. EP pretty much was the dominant ball handler putting Fournier into the role he should be in. I believe that'll be even more so this season.

 

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JJZFL    59

Yes, we have a deep lineup but it's full of role players.  I know hope springs eternal, especially at this time of year, but I suggest everyone keep their expectations under control. Whether Vuch or Biyombo is the starting center, that is still at best a mediocre lineup. Yes, it could be better than that if certain players take major steps forward, and that could happen, but I wouldn't count on it. 

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Payton4thewin    1,059

pre-all star Fournier took 3.6 catch and shoot shots per game

post-all star Fournier took 5.1 catch and shoot shots per game

 

Pre-all star payton drove to the basket 9.2 times per game resulting in points 54% of the time

Post- all star payton drove to the basket 9.3 times per game resulting in points 74% of the time

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Payton4thewin    1,059
8 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

Yes, we have a deep lineup but it's full of role players.  I know hope springs eternal, especially at this time of year, but I suggest everyone keep their expectations under control. Whether Vuch or Biyombo is the starting center, that is still at best a mediocre lineup. Yes, it could be better than that if certain players take major steps forward, and that could happen, but I wouldn't count on it. 

mediocre is a big step forward from last year.

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This team is athletic PERIOD.  Use Bismack's athleticism at the rim to gobble up offensive rebounds so we obtain second chance points.  We beat team on speed, drive, and second chance points.  Work with what we have this year.  

Bismack was not effective last season because he too, like Gordon and, yes, Payton, were playing roles that are not conducive to their strengths.

We need defense in the SL.  We need scoring in our bench. 

Put Bismack in the SL and boost our second unit with a scorer like Vuc who can take over that unit with Simmons and Afflalo.

That sports science guy will probably help figure this all out for Vogel. 

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Payton4thewin    1,059

if people want expert analysis of this discussion, the Dunc'd on Podcast did a full breakdown of all of these issues in their Orlando season preview.

basically how there's a fit problem because Simmons' best strength (defense) is best used as a starter. Vucevic is best used off the bench. but you cant start payton-simmons-gordon-biyombo.

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