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?4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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Mike1989    54
22 minutes ago, Ibn Battuta said:

how does trading Gordon and Isaac set the franchise back though? AG is about to get paid and Isaac is years away from doing anything. I'd rather pay Kawhi than AG. The other equation, salary cap, yes there are things to work out but that's not an impossible task. We have a couple extra picks; we can use those to move guys and/or get better fits. 

I don't see it as a gamble at all. We're not losing any player on the cusp of being very special, or even close to Kawhi Leonard. Only Isaac has that potential but who wants to wait 4 years for that to happen, if it even does happen.

Kawhi Leonard has two seasons left on his current contract, the second of which is a player option that he will likely opt out of to become an unrestricted free agent in 2019. 

So to answer the question, how does trading Gordon and Isaac set this franchise back if we did that in order to acquire Kawhi? 

Simple, if Kawhi walks in a years time this team will be starting from the ground up. We'll have sent Gordon and Isaac away, plus what would likely be this year's first round pick and possibly another one as well. I don't believe it is worth the risk in trading away young players and draft picks in the hope that Kawhi decides to stay here long term. Plus, we also have to factor in his injury history. He's yet to play a full season and before this season he has missed 18, 24, 16, 18, 10, and 8 games in his first six seasons. I rate the guy highly, but he doesn't seem to be the most durable of players. Then there is the question mark over why he has sat for most of this season, which has led to some questioning his toughness. For me, I would stay away from trying to acquire him because he is a flight risk and if he's ready to shun the Spurs, one of the most successful teams in league history, then I really doubt we'll hold onto him long based off how our team has been run. 

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Ibn Battuta    123
1 hour ago, Mike1989 said:

Kawhi Leonard has two seasons left on his current contract, the second of which is a player option that he will likely opt out of to become an unrestricted free agent in 2019. 

So to answer the question, how does trading Gordon and Isaac set this franchise back if we did that in order to acquire Kawhi? 

Simple, if Kawhi walks in a years time this team will be starting from the ground up. We'll have sent Gordon and Isaac away, plus what would likely be this year's first round pick and possibly another one as well. I don't believe it is worth the risk in trading away young players and draft picks in the hope that Kawhi decides to stay here long term. Plus, we also have to factor in his injury history. He's yet to play a full season and before this season he has missed 18, 24, 16, 18, 10, and 8 games in his first six seasons. I rate the guy highly, but he doesn't seem to be the most durable of players. Then there is the question mark over why he has sat for most of this season, which has led to some questioning his toughness. For me, I would stay away from trying to acquire him because he is a flight risk and if he's ready to shun the Spurs, one of the most successful teams in league history, then I really doubt we'll hold onto him long based off how our team has been run. 

Obviously, you trade him with the assurance that he signs with us long term. If he doesn’t then don’t trade for him. Then I agree that’s a gamble. 

I’m not worried about the health. IMO he doesn’t like SA or Pop and this is his way of wanting out. 

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?4thewin    1,758
1 minute ago, Ibn Battuta said:

Obviously, you trade him with the assurance that he signs with us long term. If he doesn’t then don’t trade for him. Then I agree that’s a gamble. 

I’m not worried about the health. IMO he doesn’t like SA or Pop and this is his way of wanting out. 

Yeah if he's signing here long term this is a different discussion

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Mike1989    54
11 minutes ago, Ibn Battuta said:

Obviously, you trade him with the assurance that he signs with us long term. If he doesn’t then don’t trade for him. Then I agree that’s a gamble. 

I’m not worried about the health. IMO he doesn’t like SA or Pop and this is his way of wanting out. 

If he agreed to sign an extension before the deal then that would make it an interesting proposition, but we'd also need to be confident that we could put a good supporting cast around him. Losing Gordon, Isaac and probably our first round pick leaves us with a lot of work to do to build a contender.

Of the potential landing spots for him I think the Lakers or Clippers could be ideal for him since he's from SoCal. Both have the assets to make the move and still be able to put together a decent supporting cast.

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Magicpassion    34

Question: would it be unreasonable to ask ownership to pay some luxury tax if the front office made some sound decisions that progressed our situation until we can unload Biz and maybe EF? Why not? Their making money with the new downtown complex, Lakeland, Solar Bears and all their other enterprises that we also support (even with losing). They’ve  put the fan base through h... the last 6 years and probably another 3 to 4 on our current path. I know this request is not typical, but why not, I ask? Throw the loyal fan base a bone, “billionaires.” I promise I’ll buy more Amway soap.

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?4thewin    1,758
7 minutes ago, Magicpassion said:

Question: would it be unreasonable to ask ownership to pay some luxury tax if the front office made some sound decisions that progressed our situation until we can unload Biz and maybe EF? Why not? Their making money with the new downtown complex, Lakeland, Solar Bears and all their other enterprises that we also support (even with losing). They’ve  put the fan base through h... the last 6 years and probably another 3 to 4 on our current path. I know this request is not typical, but why not, I ask? Throw the loyal fan base a bone, “billionaires.” I promise I’ll buy more Amway soap.

When there's something to pay for they'll pay. 

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Ibn Battuta    123
4 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

And if kawhi leaves you're 3 years behind where  you are now.  1 year of the kawhi team.  1 year of tanking for the next rookie.  1 year of that rookies development before he's where isaac is now.  

I don't consider that an issue anyway. In the minutes he played Isaac didn't show me anything special. For some reason this board has him pegged as DPOY but even if that does happen that is 4-5 years away at best. let him prove he can be healthy for a season first...

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?4thewin    1,758
12 minutes ago, Ibn Battuta said:

I don't consider that an issue anyway. In the minutes he played Isaac didn't show me anything special. For some reason this board has him pegged as DPOY but even if that does happen that is 4-5 years away at best. let him prove he can be healthy for a season first...

Are you serious

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Ibn Battuta    123
3 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Are you serious

about Isaac? I'm not in love with him like the rest of the board seems to be. In the limited minutes he played he didn't wow me, sorry. I watched plenty of other rookies look better than him. LM who i saw a ton, DSJ, even Frank towards the end looked more promising. He has like no offensive capabilities. He has an impressive physical profile but until that translates to buckets, it seems like this board is in love with some future version of him and not that one that's in front of us. 

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?4thewin    1,758
13 minutes ago, Ibn Battuta said:

about Isaac? I'm not in love with him like the rest of the board seems to be. In the limited minutes he played he didn't wow me, sorry. I watched plenty of other rookies look better than him. LM who i saw a ton, DSJ, even Frank towards the end looked more promising. He has like no offensive capabilities. He has an impressive physical profile but until that translates to buckets, it seems like this board is in love with some future version of him and not that one that's in front of us. 

Here's the list of every player who has ever had a similar steal% and block % to Isaac. Not sorted by rookies or 20 year olds but ever.

David Robinson

Hakeem

Gerald Wallace

Robert Traylor

Anthony Randolph but in half the minutes.

http://bkref.com/tiny/6CaOq

 

Edit and Cole Aldrich. Forgot him

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Ibn Battuta    123
1 minute ago, Bauncey Chillups said:

Isaac was already a plus defensive player as a rookie while DSJ was literally one of the worst players in the league last year lmao.

So? DSJ can at least make his own offense. You give the ball to Isaac and he's a deer in headlights. Did he even score in double figures once this season? When Isaac is on the court it's 4 on 5. He's not a threat to score, at all. You can hang your hat on some defensive metrics (most are unreliable) but that's not enough to convince me he'll develop a jumper or a go to move. 

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