Jump to content
?4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

We need to figure out how much of vucevic's defensive issues are Payton related (maybe it had no impact but we need to find out). 

We need to figure out Fournier's true offensive impact.  Can his offense be replicated collectively by the other wings or does he really have a tangible impact?

We need to see additional growth of Gordon on the offensive end. 

We need to see Isaac actually play. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, ROCK LEGENDS PHOTOGRAPHERS said:

I don't know how it works with contracts but since we have a slot open can we rotate some G league guys through so we can take a look at them?

Yes.  We're just waiting until after buyout season because someone more interesting than caupain or xavier rathan Mayes might become available.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Yes.  We're just waiting until after buyout season because someone more interesting than caupain or xavier rathan Mayes might become available.  

blech.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

We need to figure out how much of vucevic's defensive issues are Payton related (maybe it had no impact but we need to find out). 

We need to figure out Fournier's true offensive impact.  Can his offense be replicated collectively by the other wings or does he really have a tangible impact?

We need to see additional growth of Gordon on the offensive end. 

We need to see Isaac actually play. 

 

Completely agree. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

We'd have another asset. The value of it is questionable but Ayton is probably more valuable than Bridges and Bridges.

Plus, not that biggest Ayton fan, but he could be better in the NBA.

I just don't know how we're going to improve without adding serious talent with a high draft pick.

Utah ended up with Donovan Mitchell after he was taken with the 13th pick by Denver. He's looking like a potential star.

Indy drafted Myles Turner 11th overall and he's made an impact for them in his first years in the league. They also drafted PG at 10 and Granger in the 20s. 

I know we've exchangd over this in recent days, and we probably will again, but the 2nd pick in this year's draft is not significantly more valuable than the 6th pick because there is arguably no consensus first overall player and in my opinion there are seven players that have top five potential. So other than being able to select the player you prefer, this is not really year with a huge drop off in quality from 2 to 6. With that in mind we should get a contributor whether we pick high or just outside the top five. If we fall to ten or outside the top ten then our choices are not great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, magicblue said:

I’m not sure why you’re having such a hard time wrapping your head around this. It’s not like we had the worst record each year and got knocked out of the top 3, in which case you’d be right. Yes we sucked over that span, but we should have completely bottomed out (aka “tanked”) to guarantee ourselves multiple top 3 picks over that span. Why is this so difficult for you to acknowledge considering a) it didn’t happen and we didn’t ensure ourselves top 3 picks and b) where we sit now as a result of NOT tanking? 

I guess you can always be worse. To say we didn’t tank when we had the worst record in basketball for those three years is not an argument I’d want to make.  To say we didn’t tank hard enough:  same kind of argument as we didn’t tank long enough.  You can always be worse and be worse for a longer time.  You think that’s the key to success, go for it, but then don’t complain if your team wins 20 games a year for a decade or more.  You’re taking a huge risk.  

As far as I know, the only team that’s ever made themselves that bad on purpose was Philly, and they suffered through many seasons of really bad basketball.  Their GM got fired, and it was such an embarrassment that the league has made rule changes to discourage anyone from ever doing it again. And they’re hardly contending for a championship, even after all that.  That’s the model you want us to follow?  That’s the high probability road to success?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, TrueMagicFan07 said:

I love DJ. He's quick, a good passer, a good 3 pt. shooter, and is very good at making and finishing layups over taller defenders. I have always liked Fournier. When it seemed like we were going to be blown out in a game, it was his scoring that brought us back from embarassment, even if we didn't win the game.

I also like Mack and Mario. At the beginning of the season there was lots of talk about getting rid of both of them. I agree with ?4thewin. We need to see what we have with the current roster. I see a lot of positives from what I can see in the games since post Elfrid Payton.  There have only been 4 games, and we have won 3 out of 4. We might  be pleasantly surprised barring injuries and if coach Vogel doesn't start messing up with the rotation.

Btw, Mack and Mario have shown us a lot! 

 

 

Btw we are 1-1 since Payton left 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

I'm not sure why we're having the tanking discussion this year. Is anyone really sitting here saying we HAVE to get Ayton?

Couldn't we just see what growth we can get from this roster without artificially handicapping it and draft wherever we end up drafting? 

I'd rather win and have a better idea of what Gordon is, what vucevic looks like in a post Payton world, how Mario can fit in a full roster, etc. Then we just draft whoever is at our slot.  

100% agree with your earlier statement that there are times for smart situational tanking.  This year is that situation.  Without even developing this team I still think, without injuries, we are a 30-35 win team. But, because of injuries, this season is gone from a playoff perspective.  8 teams vying for what the experts say are 7 impact draft picks.  And, by the way,  ironically, Cleveland in 7th place right now. .  Anybody think all of those 8 teams are NOT going to tank.  I did not think so because some will!!!   Develop this team the rest of the year.  I am fine with that.  Just make sure you stay in the position to get the highest draft pick possible and DO NOT win your way out a good draft pick.  I like the potential of this roster but I like it a lot more with one more really good player.  And being in the top 3, or top 5 at worst gives us the best chance. If anyone could convince me that this team with whatever player we add at 7, 8, or 9 in the draft will make us competitive and not be in lottery haven next year I would say do not tank.  But with a Ayton or Doncic, or Bagley, or Bamba or Young I think we are out of lottery haven.  Unsure of Porter or Jackson.  As Magicman28 has so eloquently stated,  the higher the pick the better the chances.  Not an absolute but the odds are in our favor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

We need to figure out how much of vucevic's defensive issues are Payton related (maybe it had no impact but we need to find out). 

We need to figure out Fournier's true offensive impact.  Can his offense be replicated collectively by the other wings or does he really have a tangible impact?

We need to see additional growth of Gordon on the offensive end. 

We need to see Isaac actually play. 

 

Last two ok but the first two? If management truly has to evaluate those things, we're *****ed. 2030 for real.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Mike1989 said:

Utah ended up with Donovan Mitchell after he was taken with the 13th pick by Denver. He's looking like a potential star.

Indy drafted Myles Turner 11th overall and he's made an impact for them in his first years in the league. They also drafted PG at 10 and Granger in the 20s. 

I know we've exchangd over this in recent days, and we probably will again, but the 2nd pick in this year's draft is not significantly more valuable than the 6th pick because there is arguably no consensus first overall player and in my opinion there are seven players that have top five potential. So other than being able to select the player you prefer, this is not really year with a huge drop off in quality from 2 to 6. With that in mind we should get a contributor whether we pick high or just outside the top five. If we fall to ten or outside the top ten then our choices are not great.

Top 5 sure but this draft lacks two things, an sure franchise player, and depth. 

Donovan Mitchell was part of a deep draft. This is all subjective and this draft, I'm not feeling anything outside of the top 5-6. This is not the draft you want to be looking for a missing piece at 7-11 which I fear is where we'll be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Last two ok but the first two? If management truly has to evaluate those things, we're *****ed. 2030 for real.

We really have to. We have to really figure out their true value. Wether we keep them vs trading them. Every year that passes their trade value will be higher in my opinion. Test the market in the offseason and again in the season.  

Fourniers number are getting better each year. Somehow, he might be of interest. 

Will see. But I like where we are with isaac, gordon and our next 2018 first round pick. I am hoping we can get into another first rounder this year. We will have to wait and see. I think we can be good next year. 

Edit: add Berch, Simmons,  Iwundu our 2 second round picks and hopefully Mario.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Top 5 sure but this draft lacks two things, an sure franchise player, and depth. 

Donovan Mitchell was part of a deep draft. This is all subjective and this draft, I'm not feeling anything outside of the top 5-6. This is not the draft you want to be looking for a missing piece at 7-11 which I fear is where we'll be.

I just think hindsight is so strong.  No one saw Mitchell being this good or else he would have been taken sooner.  So saying that there won't be anything like him outside pick X doesn't really make much sense because he clearly wasn't a "can't miss" guy until he was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×