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?4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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?4thewin    1,782
3 minutes ago, magicblue said:

I'm pretty sure a late season win (like last game or second to last game of the season) cost us draft position for Porzingas

No. If you go back and look we had 25 wins and the next team in lotto odds was the Lakers at 21 wins.  

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Magicman28    255
5 minutes ago, Skip to my Jameer 114 said:

I’ll chime in. I think Isaac was 5th on our big board behind Jackson, Tatum, Fultz and Ball (in no particular order)

I don't think we'd go with Ball. This organization doesn't like distractions that Lavar brings and I don't think they could handle him like Magic can.

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Magicman28    255
3 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I've wondered if "some teams liked Isaac at 1" was really "Hammond and Weltman liked Isaac at 1".

But in practice i guess if you consider that tatum was killing it in workouts they don't pick Isaac over Tatum or fultz.  I think we probably take Isaac as wary as 4th. Maybe 3rd if we're more of a "body of work" team vs a "workout" team which we might be considering we didn't workout Isaac.  

I think we'd go with Jackson over Isaac. I bet it was Tatum, Jackson, and Isaac.

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magicdoc1    176
35 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Ugh. Can't believe we let Dipo go man. I knew he was gonna be good. 

Let me start by saying that I love Oladipo. 

But back then it was all about either oladipo or Fournier. Both young, both really good option but Fournier was the less expensive option. They were both playing similar positions. I was bother by the selection of Fournier over Dipo but I understood. 

But lets be real. Eventhough they have didferent styles of playing both are rather similar in production. In fact, this year, there are still not much different. All that set them apart is that Dipo has a higher volume of shots per game reason why his stats are higher than Fournier. 

To explain it with stats; dipo vs Fournier difference is 5ppg, 2 rpg, 1 apg and 1 spg. 

But  Fournier got him beat on fg % .448 vs .444, 3pointsfg% .381 vs ..354 and ft% .804 vs .801. 

So is fournier start to take 6-8 more fg attemps per nigh he might have the same offensive production as Oladipo. This is not counting playing time. 

Seeing this makes me realize that we need to ease up on the Oladipo vs fournier issue. 

I still rather have Oladipo but Fournier is not really a bad option to have. Specially when he is way cheaper. Not to mention that Fournier playing skills likely will last longer in this league that Oladipo aggressive playing skills. 

My 2 cents.

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JJZFL    113
22 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

No. If you go back and look we had 25 wins and the next team in lotto odds was the Lakers at 21 wins.  

Not only that, but what is it that people want the coaches to do?  Tell the team to lose on purpose?  We’re already holding out four of our potentially better players.  

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Magicman28    255
2 minutes ago, magicdoc1 said:

Let me start by saying that I love Oladipo. 

But back then it was all about either oladipo or Fournier. Both young, both really good option but Fournier was the less expensive option. They were both playing similar positions. I was bother by the selection of Fournier over Dipo but I understood. 

But lets be real. Eventhough they have didferent styles of playing both are rather similar in production. In fact, this year, there are still not much different. All that set them apart is that Dipo has a higher volume of shots per game reason why his stats are higher than Fournier. 

To explain it with stats; dipo vs Fournier difference is 5ppg, 2 rpg, 1 apg and 1 spg. 

But  Fournier got him beat on fg % .448 vs .444, 3pointsfg% .381 vs ..354 and ft% .804 vs .801. 

So is fournier start to take 6-8 more fg attemps per nigh he might have the same offensive production as Oladipo. This is not counting playing time. 

Seeing this makes me realize that we need to ease up on the Oladipo vs fournier issue. 

I still rather have Oladipo but Fournier is not really a bad option to have. Specially when he is way cheaper. Not to mention that Fournier playing skills likely will last longer in this league that Oladipo aggressive playing skills. 

My 2 cents.

You're only looking at points and shooting %. Go look at Dipo's assists and defense. Now look at our win column and look at Indy's.

I knew damn well it was a mistake because I believe he was closer to being a first option than Fournier was.

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JJZFL    113
2 hours ago, magicblue said:

Yeah, we should have signed veterans and become a 30-35 win team after the Howard fiasco, then we wouldn't be in this position (insert rolling my eyes emoji)

Yes. Put together the best team you can and build from there. Get a good draft pick or two, make a good trade or two. Multiple posters have already documented in recent posts how this strategy has worked for multiple teams, and how none of the current top teams got to where they are by following the Philadelphia scorched earth tanking approach. Do you really think we’d be worse off than we are now if we had tried that?

The tanking strategy that you’re so excited about turns the team into a disaster when it fails.  Which is where we are right now (insert rolling my eyes emoji) 

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magicdoc1    176
8 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

You're only looking at points and shooting %. Go look at Dipo's assists and defense. Now look at our win column and look at Indy's.

I knew damn well it was a mistake because I believe he was closer to being a first option than Fournier was.

Yes. I did look at it. Like i said 1 assit per game difference and 1 steal per game difference. 

Also, he is the first option there while Fournier is  1st to 2nd here. 

My point is that if Dipo was still here he will likely have similar stats as what fournier currently have in a more expensive contract. All of this lays on the organization on how players are really under control. Dipo even said it in an interview. He learned how to be more of a first option offensive player at OKC by emulating Russell’s playing abilities.

edit: 

here is the link comparing both players. 

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/evan_fournier_vs_victor_oladipo.htm

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JJZFL    113
1 hour ago, Magicman28 said:

True but reading back through the posts this morning something occurred to me that I forgot about , we didn't quite tank for 3 years. Vaughn was let go slightly below 2 3/4 of the season. Borrego took over and vowed to win those moral victories at the end of the season.  Now I like Mario but those wins may have cost us Porzingis.

What do you expect Borrego or any coach to do?  Vow to lose?  Tell the players to miss shots on purpose, or have all 5 stand on the same side of the court when they’re on defense?  Tanking means purposely putting a team out there that isn’t good enough to win.  I don’t think anyone believes that the players and coaches shouldn’t try to win. 

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Magicman28    255
1 minute ago, magicdoc1 said:

Yes. I did look at it. Like i said 1 assit per game difference and 1 steal per game difference. 

Also, he is the first option there while Fournier is  1st to 2nd here. 

My point is really that if Dipo was still here he will likely have similar stats as what fournier currently have in a more expensive contract. All of this lays on the organization on how players are really under control. Dipo even said it in an interview. He learned how to be more of a first option offensive player at OKC by emulating Russell’s playing abilities.

Go look at the advanced stats.

And how do you figure he'd have the same stats as Fournier? Again, go look at the advance stats. Plus the eye test says otherwise too.

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Magicman28    255
1 minute ago, magicdoc1 said:

Yes. I did look at it. Like i said 1 assit per game difference and 1 steal per game difference. 

Also, he is the first option there while Fournier is  1st to 2nd here. 

My point is really that if Dipo was still here he will likely have similar stats as what fournier currently have in a more expensive contract. All of this lays on the organization on how players are really under control. Dipo even said it in an interview. He learned how to be more of a first option offensive player at OKC by emulating Russell’s playing abilities.

Go look at the advanced stats.

And how do you figure he'd have the same stats as Fournier? Again, go look at the advance stats. Plus the eye test says otherwise too.

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Magicman28    255
3 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

What do you expect Borrego or any coach to do?  Vow to lose?  Tell the players to miss shots on purpose, or have all 5 stand on the same side of the court when they’re on defense?  Tanking means purposely putting a team out there that isn’t good enough to win.  I don’t think anyone believes that the players and coaches shouldn’t try to win. 

Nope. Probably should've just stuck with Vaughn. Anyways, it wasn't gonna make a huge difference. P4TW brought that to my attention.

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