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?4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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Miller4Prez66    549
4 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Your putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about tanking=ships. In fact I don't think you can make a 100% accurate argument that one is better than other. 

I said tanking means better odds at a high pick which means better odds at a good player.

I like those odds better than finding the next Gianni on the lower end of the draft.

I never said that's what you said yourself, just something I hear a lot, especially during the time of Dwight being traded. A majority of fans wanted to get a tank package in return for Dwight instead of one to win with because everyone still had championship on their minds at the time. That is exactly what happened, and it backfired. Maybe it would've worked with a different GM. But my point is, that time has passed. It's time to throw away that mindset (once this season ends).

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Magicman28    220
26 minutes ago, Mike1989 said:

Perhaps, then again Paul Millsap did decide to go and play with that young Denver team. Ok he is no LeBron James but he's still a very good player and one of the better PFs in the league. However, it is worth noting that the Denver Nuggets are a small market team and typically they are not destinations for top free agents, whereas Philly are potentially a big market team that could attract free agents. That can make a huge difference in itself. Now I do agree that if Simmons and Embiid stay health they are potential perennial all stars and that would be very appealing to potential free agents, but the market difference between those two teams is also another big factor. 

The thing to note with Philly is that they have got lucky with their tanks. Charlotte were terrible and ended up slipping one spot, so instead of getting Anthony Davis they got Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. When we had the second overall pick we got Victor Oladipo, who went first? Anthony Bennett. So for every lucky team like Philly, you get teams that slip and miss out on a star, or they are bad and pick high in weak classes. I give them credit for sticking with their tanking approach year after year until they hit on star level talent, but can you imagine the reaction on these boards and within our fan base if our team decided to gut this roster and commit to being the worst team in the league (by far) for the next few seasons (at least)? I don't think it would be met positively. Maybe we would reap the rewards in the end but it could certainly be dark days for this team. 

Also, my argument is that you don't need to tank to rebuild a team. If you want another example of a team that rebuilt themselves without tanking - Houston. After losing in the semi finals to the Lakers in 2009, they spent the next three seasons hovering above .500 and missing out on the play offs. In 2012 they managed to acquire James Harden and they haven't looked back. Another example, Toronto. When Chris Bosh left, they have managed to build one of the best teams in the east without tanking and top picks. The Warriors have built one of the best teams in NBA history even before Durant join them in free agency without tanking and top picks - Curry 7th overall pick, Thompson 11th overall pick, and Green 35th overall. They even had Harrison Barnes, 7th overall, as part of their title winning team. So teams can rebuild without tanking, it just takes a bit of luck, good scouting, and player development. 

No you don't have to. I just don't have a ton of confidence with this organization so I rather they play the odds.

Beginning of the year I wanted nothing to do with the draft in general. When the deadline came I was hoping we could pull off a deal that helps us next year. We didn't. Now we're going to be closing the season out with wins here, losses there and a meh draft pick.

Maybe I'm wrong and we continue to suck hard. I dunno but odds say that with an healthy AG and Isaac, and an more consistent Mario, minus EP, we have the potential to finish with more wins that shoots us out of a high draft pick.

How do we improve? Well you might say trades in the off season. That's going to be really difficult and we don't really have a good enough selling point to acquire talented vets, not Simmons, but real difference makers in FA. It's a weak FA class anyways. Draft is your best bet. Tank.

Now your GS argument. This is time comes in. This draft? Not seeing the next steph there. And let's be honest, without Steph, GS wouldn't be GS. Anywho, I don't see the talent there 7-10. Maybe Porter if he slips because of his back but, his back...

 

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Magicman28    220
16 hours ago, Miller4Prez66 said:

I never said that's what you said yourself, just something I hear a lot, especially during the time of Dwight being traded. A majority of fans wanted to get a tank package in return for Dwight instead of one to win with because everyone still had championship on their minds at the time. That is exactly what happened, and it backfired. Maybe it would've worked with a different GM. But my point is, that time has passed. It's time to throw away that mindset (once this season ends).

I don't think anyone wants to tank. You're losing an franchise player in Dwight and its hard to get value back in that. Plus this is the NBA where star power wins. It wins in jersey sales, ticket sales, TV appearances, and ships. Most of the time. 

So yeah, how do you get a star? No one was offering one for Dwight and no star was talking about coming here post Dwight so what do you do? You tank because usually, most of the time, they get drafted high. Sure there are cases where a star like PG is drafted low but not as much as they are at the top of the draft. There are cases that a high pick doesn't pan out but those cases don't negate the fact that most stars are usually drafted high.

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Justin Jaudon    109

4 of the 10 All-Star starters are not top 3 picks. 10 of the 14 reserves. Something tells me we're better off worrying about player development and asset management than draft position. Not that I want desperately to see us win a bunch of meaningless games at the end of this season. But if the team suddenly starts playing hard every night, and it seems the culture is changing, slipping to 5th or 6th in the draft might be worth it (especially if Young falls, which I've seen a lot of people saying he will).

 

Edit: correction, 11 of 14 reserves. Westbrook was the 4th pick.

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Magicman28    220
1 minute ago, Justin Jaudon said:

4 of the 10 All-Star starters are not top 3 picks. 10 of the 14 reserves. Something tells me we're better off worrying about player development and asset management than draft position. Not that I want desperately to see us win a bunch of meaningless games at the end of this season. But if the team suddenly starts playing hard every night, and it seems the culture is changing, slipping to 5th or 6th in the draft might be worth it (especially if Young falls, which I've seen a lot of people saying he will).

Sure but this organization has already possibly screwed that up by not picking up Mario's option. 

Top 3? Ok but I'm concerned about falling out of the top 6. I do not want be talking about the possibilities of Bridges or Knox.

 

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42 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

No you don't have to. I just don't have a ton of confidence with this organization so I rather they play the odds.

Beginning of the year I wanted nothing to do with the draft in general. When the deadline came I was hoping we could pull off a deal that helps us next year. We didn't. Now we're going to be closing the season out with wins here, losses there and a meh draft pick.

Maybe I'm wrong and we continue to suck hard. I dunno but odds say that with an healthy AG and Isaac, and an more consistent Mario, minus EP, we have the potential to finish with more wins that shoots us out of a high draft pick.

How do we improve? Well you might say trades in the off season. That's going to be really difficult and we don't really have a good enough selling point to acquire talented vets, not Simmons, but real difference makers in FA. It's a weak FA class anyways. Draft is your best bet. Tank.

Now your GS argument. This is time comes in. This draft? Not seeing the next steph there. And let's be honest, without Steph, GS wouldn't be GS. Anywho, I don't see the talent there 7-10. Maybe Porter if he slips because of his back but, his back...

 

Seriously you don't see any comparison between Trae and steph?

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Justin Jaudon    109
5 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Sure but this organization has already possibly screwed that up by not picking up Mario's option. 

Top 3? Ok but I'm concerned about falling out of the top 6. I do not want be talking about the possibilities of Bridges or Knox.

 

Unless Bridges or Knox end up the next PG/McCollum/DeRozan/Hayward/Kemba/Drummond/Steph/Barnes. For the record, if we get th 8th pick we're just cursed... or maybe eight is due, right?

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Gordon MVP    243

I felt that George hill was the PG this franchise needed to move things forward, veteran to lead our team, good length, great shooter 

Could have made drafting easier too 

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Magicman28    220
1 minute ago, fan for too long 2 said:

Seriously you don't see any comparison between Trae and steph?

Sure but I'm still going to see what he does after this slump and see how the combine goes.

I don't buy he'll be there at 7 either.

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Magicman28    220
4 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said:

Unless Bridges or Knox end up the next PG/McCollum/DeRozan/Hayward/Kemba/Drummond/Steph/Barnes. For the record, if we get th 8th pick we're just cursed... or maybe eight is due, right?

Not in this draft. This is the draft where top 5, top 3 if you can, is important imo.

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Justin Jaudon    109

Looking at the last ten years, it's clear that getting the #1 pick is great. But the #2 pick the last ten years has arguably worse (in terms of getting a star player) than getting #9. # 3 isn't really any better.

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Gordon MVP    243
4 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said:

Looking at the last ten years, it's clear that getting the #1 pick is great. But the #2 pick the last ten years has arguably worse (in terms of getting a star player) than getting #9. # 3 isn't really any better.

I think if we get the #1 pick we will get it right...damn I hope that happens 

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