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?4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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Even without Vuc we will be pretty well set at the 4/5. If we happen to get a PG that plays great D (Sexton?) we would be capable of putting 5 good defenders on the floor at the same time when need be. One thing I hope we stop doing is bringing in players trying to compensate for other players' deficiencies, ie Payton & Vuc. Our center needs to protect the paint and if Vuc can't/won't do it we shouldn't play him except at garbage time and our PG should either play tight D or outscore his opponent substantially (Young). It's been exciting seeing actual defense in the paint!

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Magicfan1987    55
35 minutes ago, ROCK LEGENDS PHOTOGRAPHERS said:

Even without Vuc we will be pretty well set at the 4/5. If we happen to get a PG that plays great D (Sexton?) we would be capable of putting 5 good defenders on the floor at the same time when need be. One thing I hope we stop doing is bringing in players trying to compensate for other players' deficiencies, ie Payton & Vuc. Our center needs to protect the paint and if Vuc can't/won't do it we shouldn't play him except at garbage time and our PG should either play tight D or outscore his opponent substantially (Young). It's been exciting seeing actual defense in the paint!

yeah enough with the ying yang philosophy and get some aquatic guys.

"you put water into a cup it becomes the cup you out water into a bottle it becomes the bottle you put water into a tea pot it becomes the tea pot. Now water can flow, or it can crash. Be water my Weham prospects."

-Bruce Lee (with mild alterations from Magicfan1987)

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Miller4Prez66    549
11 hours ago, Justin Jaudon said:

There are other ways to win than tanking. Using cap space wisely, taking on good pieces from teams looking to start tanking, for one. If we aren't going to tank, we have to start using cap space as an asset. Look for solid players other teams aren't going to re-sign due to overload at the position, or guys who are being used poorly. Right now this strategy would look like us showcasing Evan Fournier and then trading him for assets. Same with Vuc. Get picks (AND USE THEM, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!!), get young guys, whatever. But don't ever sign bad contracts, and don't get too attached to any one prospect. Develop young guys, but know that they may be used to build further assets. Houston did this back in the day, slowly building a solid-but-not-good team, then cashing in a bunch of assets to get Harden. New Jersey is trying to do this now, but I think they may go back to tanking once their picks become their own. Boston did this, really (though it helps when you get the biggest trade robbery in recent memory). Dallas may be doing this, now... sort of. The problem is we don't seem to be tanking OR using our cap space wisely. Hopefully the new management does the latter a bit better than Hennigan did. So far, they've been very cap-conservative, with the Mario situation and the Elfrid trade. But we have no real clue what they'll do once we have some cap room. The fact that we never seemed to be actively trying to trade Fournier makes me think we're still in evaluation mode.


Tanking is so overrated. None of the best teams in the league right now tanked for their best players. All the tanking strategy has done for us is waste 6 years of our short lives on bad basketball and set up the darkest age in the history of this franchise. With this season already a lost cause I'm fine with tanking to finish, but I don't want to hear anymore of it going forward. Life is way too short to throw away YEARS for the possibility of getting a star who might lead you to a championship. Plus, even if we do get one that doesn't guarantee diddly either. Not like the Pelicans have won big with Anthony Davis and I think the dude is a top 5 player in the NBA.

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Justin Jaudon    109
36 minutes ago, Miller4Prez66 said:


Tanking is so overrated. None of the best teams in the league right now tanked for their best players. All the tanking strategy has done for us is waste 6 years of our short lives on bad basketball and set up the darkest age in the history of this franchise. With this season already a lost cause I'm fine with tanking to finish, but I don't want to hear anymore of it going forward. Life is way too short to throw away YEARS for the possibility of getting a star who might lead you to a championship. Plus, even if we do get one that doesn't guarantee diddly either. Not like the Pelicans have won big with Anthony Davis and I think the dude is a top 5 player in the NBA.

Cleveland sort of tanked for their players, in that Lebron would not have come their without the multiple #1 picks getting them Kevin Love. Fun fact: Kyrie was not a result of tanking. That was not their pick. But yeah, Houston did what I suggested, as did Boston. Golden State is an anomaly. They drafted multiple Hall of fame type players outside the top 5 within five years of each other. That's just...insane luck, mixed with brilliant scouting, mixed with great money management. Then they got Durant basically because of a league-wide salary cap anomaly. San Antonio tanked for a year 20 years ago and has never been out of the top five teams in the league since. Toronto is sort of a cheap, knock-off Golden State, in some ways, except they didn't draft all those guys. None of the league's best teams got great by tanking traditionally, though. Closest is probably, what, Washington? OKC, maybe? Philly in a few years if they continue to develop, sure; but not yet, and maybe not ever. OKC was at one point the poster child, but they never won it all, and they botched it horribly in the end.

 

But you'll never convince people of this. Best not to try.

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magicdoc1    99
12 hours ago, Magicman28 said:

Yeah bulking is not something you want to do in a small amount of time.

I mean It can be done but I think it is not healthy at all.   2 months ago I was 175 and now I am 195. Now, I will not call that bulking since all my weight gain was done while I was sitting.

Surely was accomplish against my own will. 

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JJZFL    82
18 hours ago, JamminJ21 said:

Best thing about payton being traded is not having to hear you talk about hating his floppy hair anymore

I hated it also.

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Mike1989    22
14 hours ago, ROCK LEGENDS PHOTOGRAPHERS said:

Even without Vuc we will be pretty well set at the 4/5. If we happen to get a PG that plays great D (Sexton?) we would be capable of putting 5 good defenders on the floor at the same time when need be. One thing I hope we stop doing is bringing in players trying to compensate for other players' deficiencies, ie Payton & Vuc. Our center needs to protect the paint and if Vuc can't/won't do it we shouldn't play him except at garbage time and our PG should either play tight D or outscore his opponent substantially (Young). It's been exciting seeing actual defense in the paint!

It would be great to have 5 good defenders on the floor at the same time, but what should also be a priority is making sure that our play at the offensive improves as well. We especially need to make sure that our shooting improves and we feature lineups that actually make teams account for the fact that we can shoot and space the floor. As it stands teams almost dare us to shoot and for every time we knock down our shots and prove them wrong, there are plenty of times we don't and we end up suffering for it. The best teams in this league do play good defense, but what they also have is the ability to knock down shots and score in waves that breaks their opponents. Look at the Warriors did to the Mavericks in their last game. The Mavs led 33-23 at the end of the first quarter. From there on the Warriors outscored them in every quarter by 10, 8, and 10 points. Meanwhile the Mavericks scoring went down in each quarter and only manage 18 points in the fourth. The Warriors broke them. Generally speaking you can only hold teams like them for so long before they start hitting their shots and start scoring, and at that point I would argue having the ability to stay with them shot for shot is more important than great defense. Don't get me wrong having the ability to play great defense is important, but I think we need to focus on making sure we have a group of players that can shoot and score heavily on a consistent basis rather than pinning our hopes on becoming a Grizzlies kinda team that plays with a grit and grind approach. 

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3 minutes ago, Mike1989 said:

It would be great to have 5 good defenders on the floor at the same time, but what should also be a priority is making sure that our play at the offensive improves as well. We especially need to make sure that our shooting improves and we feature lineups that actually make teams account for the fact that we can shoot and space the floor. As it stands teams almost dare us to shoot and for every time we knock down our shots and prove them wrong, there are plenty of times we don't and we end up suffering for it. The best teams in this league do play good defense, but what they also have is the ability to knock down shots and score in waves that breaks their opponents. Look at the Warriors did to the Mavericks in their last game. The Mavs led 33-23 at the end of the first quarter. From there on the Warriors outscored them in every quarter by 10, 8, and 10 points. Meanwhile the Mavericks scoring went down in each quarter and only manage 18 points in the fourth. The Warriors broke them. Generally speaking you can only hold teams like them for so long before they start hitting their shots and start scoring, and at that point I would argue having the ability to stay with them shot for shot is more important than great defense. Don't get me wrong having the ability to play great defense is important, but I think we need to focus on making sure we have a group of players that can shoot and score heavily on a consistent basis rather than pinning our hopes on becoming a Grizzlies kinda team that plays with a grit and grind approach. 

Offense beats defense in this era Everytime!!!

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?4thewin    1,340
4 minutes ago, Mike1989 said:

It would be great to have 5 good defenders on the floor at the same time, but what should also be a priority is making sure that our play at the offensive improves as well. We especially need to make sure that our shooting improves and we feature lineups that actually make teams account for the fact that we can shoot and space the floor. As it stands teams almost dare us to shoot and for every time we knock down our shots and prove them wrong, there are plenty of times we don't and we end up suffering for it. The best teams in this league do play good defense, but what they also have is the ability to knock down shots and score in waves that breaks their opponents. Look at the Warriors did to the Mavericks in their last game. The Mavs led 33-23 at the end of the first quarter. From there on the Warriors outscored them in every quarter by 10, 8, and 10 points. Meanwhile the Mavericks scoring went down in each quarter and only manage 18 points in the fourth. The Warriors broke them. Generally speaking you can only hold teams like them for so long before they start hitting their shots and start scoring, and at that point I would argue having the ability to stay with them shot for shot is more important than great defense. Don't get me wrong having the ability to play great defense is important, but I think we need to focus on making sure we have a group of players that can shoot and score heavily on a consistent basis rather than pinning our hopes on becoming a Grizzlies kinda team that plays with a grit and grind approach. 

Our offense has been pretty decent this year.  18th overall. 10th in assist percentage.  14th in eFG% and TS%. 19th in ft rate. 15th in three point rate.

Defense has been hot garbage though

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5 minutes ago, fan for too long 2 said:

Offense beats defense in this era Everytime!!!

I totally agree and should have been more specific. I was referring to having 5 good defenders on the floor in contrast to having 3 when Vuc and Payton were in the starting lineup. If you can't shoot it really doesn't matter how good the D is. 

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