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?4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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ML6    165
4 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

He is not a lockdown defender,  he is a good defender with plenty of defensive breakdowns evident by his middling defensive metrics and his offensive efficiency is decreasing from a point that wasn't great to begin with.  I'd like him moving forward but if we can use him to diversify assets I would do it, just like I'd do with anyone else on the team except Isaac at this point.  

Oh OK got it.  So Gordon doesn't meet your personal (incorrect) criteria, but the guy who has played 1/4 of one NBA season with a concerningly lingering injury does. 

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?4thewin    1,334
4 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

He is not a lockdown defender,  he is a good defender with plenty of defensive breakdowns evident by his middling defensive metrics and his offensive efficiency is decreasing from a point that wasn't great to begin with.  I'd like him moving forward but if we can use him to diversify assets I would do it, just like I'd do with anyone else on the team except Isaac at this point.  

What does Gordon playing poor defense lately have to do with Payton being a terrible defender? 

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Murphy13    140
1 minute ago, Payton4thewin said:

Nothing you said here makes any sense

If you want to take that PnR stat as gospel, fine.  It's overly simplified then extrapolated in a way that can't be adequately defined and is therefore not entirely credible to me.  The thing is, I didn't need someone creating a spreadsheet to tell me we struggle with PnR.  I don't care if Payton is a good PnR defender right now because everyone else on our team is bad at it as well.  It's just an excuse to poop on Payton because that's the popular thing to do.  I realize that many here think Payton isn't good despite evidence to the contrary.  I've already come to terms with most here wanting a new point guard and everything that goes along with it.  I will take no solace in seeing him perform at his next destination while we are stuck developing someone else's point guard for them again while we suck.  

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Murphy13    140
2 minutes ago, ML6 said:

Oh OK got it.  So Gordon doesn't meet your personal (incorrect) criteria, but the guy who has played 1/4 of one NBA season with a concerningly lingering injury does. 

No, Isaac doesn't have any established value other than his (relatively) high draft position so he can't be accurately assessed and therefore utilized as a piece at this time.  Nice try though.

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Tank Vogel    77

Valuing Isaac over Gordon doesnt mean you think Isaac is better, it means Isaac will be paid over the next 4 years total what Gordon is about to make in 1.

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Miller4Prez66    549

Gordon is going to be paid because he is a 22 year old year old averaging 18/8 and has improved every year since being drafted. He's the player with most potential on our roster (except maybe Isaac who just turned 20), so I feel it's in the best interest to pay him. If he continues to improve, a young productive player is not hard to move.

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Murphy13    140
5 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

What does Gordon playing poor defense lately have to do with Payton being a terrible defender? 

Nothing other than to say that our entire defensive schemes are the problem and less so the individual talents of our players.  I only brought it up to show how unbalanced some are here.  They are blindly faithful to AG and blindly condemning of Payton.

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Murphy13    140
4 minutes ago, Tank Vogel said:

Valuing Isaac over Gordon doesnt mean you think Isaac is better, it means Isaac will be paid over the next 4 years total what Gordon is about to make in 1.

That kind of common sense has no place on TBN right now.

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ML6    165
6 minutes ago, Tank Vogel said:

Valuing Isaac over Gordon doesnt mean you think Isaac is better, it means Isaac will be paid over the next 4 years total what Gordon is about to make in 1.

Let's just only ever have players on rookie contracts then, since they will make less than good players who justifiably earn what they're worth later on.  Solved.

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Murphy13    140
5 minutes ago, Miller4Prez66 said:

Gordon is going to be paid because he is a 22 year old year old averaging 18/8 and has improved every year since being drafted. He's the player with most potential on our roster (except maybe Isaac who just turned 20), so I feel it's in the best interest to pay him. If he continues to improve, a young productive player is not hard to move.

I think there is consensus that he needs to be paid, the question is how much. 

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jec    352
12 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

If you want to take that PnR stat as gospel, fine.  It's overly simplified then extrapolated in a way that can't be adequately defined . . .

Not really. It's pretty simple. The point isn't that everyone else is bad defending the pick and roll. It's that Payton is substantially worse. And he doesn't shoot. He isn't a pariah or a scapegoat. He just kinda sucks.

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Murphy13    140
1 minute ago, jec said:

Not really. It's pretty simple. 

Just like your thought process when it comes to basketball.  If you don't care to understand what others are trying to convey then don't bother responding with drivel.  

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