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Fultz4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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16 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

“He [Ross] goes a lot of times where he plays the whole first half with zero field-goal attempts or one field-goal attempt. He’s capable of more than that. He’s one of our most selfless players. He’s not really lost. He’s making the right play. He’s just one of the guys that doesn’t force. We’ve got too many guys that force.

What?!

Did Vogel say that? 

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I'm not a conspiracy theory or doom & gloom type guy generally, but there is a small part of me that thinks Vogel is trying to pull a Skiles and is looking for a way out.  His general demeanor and body language in interviews right now is awful.  I get being bummed but he seems completely defeated. 

If (big IF) that turns out to be the case, that is a horrible look for the franchise with back-to-back coaches.  But it would pretty much solidify what we already know: the core players are the issue.  They've now had a shot with the lax coach (Vaughn), the strict coach (Skiles), and the mixture (Vogel) -- it is completely ridiculous for them to not mesh with one of those styles.  What else is there?

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12 hours ago, Magicman28 said:

“He [Ross] goes a lot of times where he plays the whole first half with zero field-goal attempts or one field-goal attempt. He’s capable of more than that. He’s one of our most selfless players. He’s not really lost. He’s making the right play. He’s just one of the guys that doesn’t force. We’ve got too many guys that force.

What?!

Did this guy see how TROSS couldn’t make ANY 3s last night? 

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14 minutes ago, Gordon MVP said:

Did this guy see how TROSS couldn’t make ANY 3s last night? 

Yeah.  I mean Ross is shooting about 33% from 3 this year and 41% overall so it's not like he's the missing link.

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Anyone notice how every summer we come up with these rosy scenarios that people latch on to about how we're going to be much better next season?  This past summer was no exception.  I recall the reasoning, some mixture of the following:

  1. Our starting 5 was really good after the AS break, once Gordon got moved to his more natural 4 spot, and we got rid of Ibaka.
  2. Our bench sucked which is why we were 8-16 after the AS break, but we've massively improved our bench by getting rid of Green and adding Isaac and others.
  3. Hezonja has finally stayed in the US to work with the coaching staff over the summer, which should make all the difference.
  4. The whole team should benefit from the same coach coming back with the same system.  Finally some continuity.
  5. The young players now have another year under their belts, and should start coming into their own.
  6. Etc

It seems we fall into these same traps every summer, during which as I said on a number of posts, "hope springs eternal".  We use faulty assumptions, incorrect extrapolations based on small (and sometimes meaningless) sample sizes, and other misconceptions, resulting in expectations that get shattered every year.  It's almost like Lucy taking the football away again and again and again.

A few stayed somewhat grounded, and noted that mostly the same players coming back are likely to produce similar results to last year. Going forward, I'm definitely going with the "wait until I see it to believe it" mentality. 

 

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12 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

Anyone notice how every summer we come up with these rosy scenarios that people latch on to about how we're going to be much better next season?  This past summer was no exception.  I recall the reasoning, some mixture of the following:

  1. Our starting 5 was really good after the AS break, once Gordon got moved to his more natural 4 spot, and we got rid of Ibaka.
  2. Our bench sucked which is why we were 8-16 after the AS break, but we've massively improved our bench by getting rid of Green and adding Isaac and others.
  3. Hezonja has finally stayed in the US to work with the coaching staff over the summer, which should make all the difference.
  4. The whole team should benefit from the same coach coming back with the same system.  Finally some continuity.
  5. The young players now have another year under their belts, and should start coming into their own.
  6. Etc

It seems we fall into these same traps every summer, during which as I said on a number of posts, "hope springs eternal".  We use faulty assumptions, incorrect extrapolations based on small (and sometimes meaningless) sample sizes, and other misconceptions, resulting in expectations that get shattered every year.  It's almost like Lucy taking the football away again and again and again.

A few stayed somewhat grounded, and noted that mostly the same players coming back are likely to produce similar results to last year. Going forward, I'm definitely going with the "wait until I see it to believe it" mentality. 

 

The team is better this year.  They just suffered too many injuries and that *****ed up the rhythm we had going early.  

The hope always hinged on "if we stay reasonably healthy" and we haven't.  Right now with the sample we have we were down to a single point guard for a third of the season overlapping with no Isaac for 40% of the season.  

Even if we don't make any changes we'll get out of this slump and win 36 or so games as guys get healthier. 

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JJZFL, I hear you. I couldn’t believe we were entering the season with Payton and Vooch as starters, and I still can’t believe it. I have a hard time believing either are starting caliber players on a playoff team.

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4 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

The team is better this year.  They just suffered too many injuries and that *****ed up the rhythm we had going early.  

The hope always hinged on "if we stay reasonably healthy" and we haven't.  Right now with the sample we have we were down to a single point guard for a third of the season overlapping with no Isaac for 40% of the season.  

Even if we don't make any changes we'll get out of this slump and win 36 or so games as guys get healthier. 

Payton was out for most of the games we won.  I can't accept the idea that a 20 year old rookie makes that much difference. But even if he does, one of the concerns about drafting him was that he was so lean, he might not hold up well in an NBA season.

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I just want to rid ourselves of the dead weight. 36-41 wins? Whatever. Trade Vuch and Fournier and lets get some players who fit the culture we talked about so much when Henny was let go because that culture is still here and those two starters are leading that culture.

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7 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

Payton was out for most of the games we won.  I can't accept the idea that a 20 year old rookie makes that much difference. But even if he does, one of the concerns about drafting him was that he was so lean, he might not hold up well in an NBA season.

It wasn't about losing Payton.  It was Payton AND Augustin simultaneously.  Then Isaac.  

Its not so much a 20 year old rookie makes a difference that much, its having a hole in the rotation.  You start playing 9 guys big minutes and everyone gets in a rhythm.  Isaac leaves and you need to replace your backup sf and your backup pf. We don't have a guy that can replicate that so you need to play Afflalo the backup wing minutes and speights the backup 4 minutes and now you're switching to a full bench lineup instead of a bench with starters mixed in.  

Many of these games we would have lost completely healthy.  Denver, golden state, both Boston games definitely.  But there's probably 2 games in there that should have been wins and 10-11 instead of 8-13 makes a huge difference this early.  

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Or maybe i just didn't consider vucevic and his attitude.  

Early in the season his shots were falling and i saw him contest a wide open corner three that he had no chance of reaching and that was representative of a willingness to hustle and switch and defend the open man. He was good.  

His shots stopped falling and now he doesn't even get a hand up on his man shooting 5 feet away from him

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