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Fultz4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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Starting 5 should be :

EP- Frenchie- Issac- AG- Vuch.

Interior defense would improve without sacrificing spacing. Simmons and Ross off the bench are dynamic high energy guys with biz for D,  And Speights to shoot 3s 

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In today's NBA, Isaac might be a 5 when his frame fills out.  That would offer a ton of offensive and defensive versatility.  He's not ready right now but it's not out of the question for the future.

And yeah, I think the team's ceiling is vastly limited by Vuc's defensive capability.  It's not like you can't replace offensive output from the 5 spot today -- think of how many 5s are shooting 3s now.  It was one thing when the line of thinking was "well, we'll concede some defensive lapses from him b/c his offensive repertoire is pretty good", but now that we know how replicable that sort of output is from a 5 we should be less inclined to tolerate the constant blowbys, straight line drives, easy finishes, etc.  

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38 minutes ago, Tom Servo said:

Issac is not a 5. Dont turn him into Nerlens. 

Isaac's skill set is more dynamic than Nerlens he wouldn't turn into him. I don't think he's ready to be a 5 his body will eventually grow into a body that can play the 5. With that said I'm not sure if the dropoff from Vuch to Isaac would be a negative when you gain more offense from AG and hopefully better defense from Isaac and more efficent offense albeit not as good as Vuch. 

Either way Vuch isn't gpod enough and we need to find a way to replace him. I'm not a fan of his style at all. 

To add I also don't want Isaac playing the 5 full time. I'd like him to rotate in that spot with a solid role playing big. 

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Nerlens was also a guy with "guard skills". In addition i dont see Issacs lower half filling out much more.  I'd be more comfy with him at 4 but ultimately he is a 3 who happens to be 7 ft, and not a 7 footer who happens to play the wing.

 

 

... I know he is 6'11

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35 minutes ago, Tom Servo said:

Nerlens was also a guy with "guard skills". In addition i dont see Issacs lower half filling out much more.  I'd be more comfy with him at 4 but ultimately he is a 3 who happens to be 7 ft, and not a 7 footer who happens to play the wing.

 

 

... I know he is 6'11

If Noel hit threes he'd be a very good nba player.  

 

So when you say "dont turn him into nerlens" i get confused.  That would be a really good thing for us

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28 minutes ago, Tom Servo said:

Nerlens was also a guy with "guard skills". In addition i dont see Issacs lower half filling out much more.  I'd be more comfy with him at 4 but ultimately he is a 3 who happens to be 7 ft, and not a 7 footer who happens to play the wing.

 

 

... I know he is 6'11

Nerlens offensive game was absolute garbage.  Predraft the hype behind him was his athleticism and ability to force change on the defensive end. His ball handling, and evetything involving putting the ball in the basket is worst than Isaac.

We can disagree but Nerlens is a terrible comparison in my opinion. 

And again I don't want Isaac playing the 5 full time. He is versatile enough to play 3-5 and should be afforded that chance.

This is all said with the hope that by time AS break things start clicking for him and he makes less rookie mistakes. 

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Just now, Payton4thewin said:

If Noel hit threes he'd be a very good nba player.  

 

So when you say "dont turn him into nerlens" i get confused.  That would be a really good thing for us

I think it's limiting him as a player to be honest. You took a guy who has specific strengths and skills to build upon and decide to ignore them and turn him into a role player.

For instance his ability to create shots off the dribble and shoot over smaller forwards imo is something you don't ignore. That's what made KD so deadly.

Great he's tall, he can block shots, but he can be so much more than that. Noel isn't a franchise player so why mold JI into that just baffles me.

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43 minutes ago, Tom Servo said:

Nerlens was also a guy with "guard skills". In addition i dont see Issacs lower half filling out much more.  I'd be more comfy with him at 4 but ultimately he is a 3 who happens to be 7 ft, and not a 7 footer who happens to play the wing.

 

 

... I know he is 6'11

Lol. When did Noel ever have guard skills? He barely has big man skills.

Stop thinking about positions as the set roles of the past. We aren’t talking about him as a 5 as in he should be backing guys down in the post. We are more talking about defensive positioning. He should be playing more in the center there, disrupting  the offense with his length and foot speed, not on the perimeter.

also look at current centers- Jokic, Cousins, Gasol, KAT, etc. They are doing a lot of “guard” things now.

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5 minutes ago, Odin said:

Lol. When did Noel ever have guard skills? He barely has big man skills.

Stop thinking about positions as the set roles of the past. We aren’t talking about him as a 5 as in he should be backing guys down in the post. We are more talking about defensive positioning. He should be playing more in the center there, disrupting  the offense with his length and foot speed, not on the perimeter.

also look at current centers- Jokic, Cousins, Gasol, KAT, etc. They are doing a lot of “guard” things now.

Yeah but his length is great guarding perimeter players too.

Plus his agility and footwork.

Hes a 5 the way KD plays the 5. In spurts but making him a full time 5 is just dumb. 

The guys you listed above have been big men their whole lives. JI's skills, not position, is that of a SF/PF.

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13 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

I think it's limiting him as a player to be honest. You took a guy who has specific strengths and skills to build upon and decide to ignore them and turn him into a role player.

For instance his ability to create shots off the dribble and shoot over smaller forwards imo is something you don't ignore. That's what made KD so deadly.

Great he's tall, he can block shots, but he can be so much more than that. Noel isn't a franchise player so why mold JI into that just baffles me.

How does it limit him at all to defend centers and run him like a small forward on offense? 

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31 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

How does it limit him at all to defend centers and run him like a small forward on offense? 

Yep- our main issues are defensive not offensive.

Payton- hit or miss- struggles with screens (though played some good one on one defense against Durant for example).

Ross- Good perimeter defender.

Fournier- no longer seems to be a liability, average.

Gordon- Good defensively on the perimeter and as a help defender.

Vuch- a defensive liability both one on one and in the team setting.

 

If we suppose that Isaac has the potential to be just as good a perimeter defender as interior defender, than it makes the most sense for him to replace Vuch on defense. Plus, even though defense has changed as the offenses have changed, center is still the most important position defensively. So by saying Isaac should play center, we are saying he should anchor our defense, which could bring our defense to the next level.

Edit: Also a center's role is not only to guard the other center but to free range a little and cover the interior from incursions. I think Isaac's length could really do damage taking away those passing lanes and cutting off gaps to the basket. He is not there yet defensively, but where he is already as a rookie is pretty impressive I think.

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I had actually just been thinking the other day about how interesting a more filled-out version of Isaac at the 5 would be so I'm glad this discussion has come up.  With the way the league is trending it actually seems like somewhat of an ideal fit for him and the team long-term.

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