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Fultz4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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Do we have a realistic path to getting Terry Rozier?

Say we draft big with our first pick (Ayton, JJJ, Bamba, Bagley etc) and go for a PG in the second round. It's most likely on statistics and history that the 2nd round PG won't become our future starter. Granted this is a pretty deep PG draft, but still, there's a good chance that they will develop to be a backup. Could we make enough room to go after Rozier? It's tough to say what kind of offers he will get because he'll have another full season of play to dictate his value, but I'm just thinking ahead and possibly he could be a good piece to add to the young core we are developing. AG, Isaac, JJJ/Bamba/Ayton, Rozier is a pretty good foundation, with the possibility of Mario too.

Our path to our game changing player may not be through the draft and could be through free agency in 3 or 4 years. If we can build a competitive, good young team with a good culture who is in the playoffs we could just be a perfect destination for whatever superstar free agent wants to move on to another club.

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3 minutes ago, The Boss said:

Do we have a realistic path to getting Terry Rozier?

Say we draft big with our first pick (Ayton, JJJ, Bamba, Bagley etc) and go for a PG in the second round. It's most likely on statistics and history that the 2nd round PG won't become our future starter. Granted this is a pretty deep PG draft, but still, there's a good chance that they will develop to be a backup. Could we make enough room to go after Rozier? It's tough to say what kind of offers he will get because he'll have another full season of play to dictate his value, but I'm just thinking ahead and possibly he could be a good piece to add to the young core we are developing. AG, Isaac, JJJ/Bamba/Ayton, Rozier is a pretty good foundation, with the possibility of Mario too.

Our path to our game changing player may not be through the draft and could be through free agency in 3 or 4 years. If we can build a competitive, good young team with a good culture who is in the playoffs we could just be a perfect destination for whatever superstar free agent wants to move on to another club.

Ugh. I wish we would’ve jumped on Rozier when we realistically could have got him for Vucevic and a protected 1st. We can still get him, but it’ll cost a lot.

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After the first round of the playoffs, I am sure there are some unhappy teams. So I was thinking which player could be available or what can we offer the other teams. So let us start…
 
WAS:    After a disappointing season and some rumors about issues in the locker-room, maybe they look for some changes. Could Wall be available? What would it take to get him? Could we flip our Centers (Biz for Gortat)?
MIL:    They need definitely a Center who play some D. Could we trade Biz to the Bucks without taking back a bad contract?
IND:    Can’t see any possible trade
MIA:    I think the days from Whiteside in Miami are over. What would it take to bring him to Orlando?
OKC:    They need to upgrade their bench and/or SG. Are they willing to trade Adams for that? Would a packet of Fournier and Vuc (or Biz) be enough?
MIN:    Can’t see any possible trade
POR:    Are they still believe in the backcourt with Lillard and McCollum? Is there a chance to get one of them and what would it take?
SAN:    What will happen with Leonard? Is there any chance to get him without give away all our assets (Gordon, Isaac and our 1rd pick)?
 
I think many of the questions depends to what happens in the draft-lottery and how high we are on the rookies. If we pick somewhere between 4-6 I would take Young and try to trade for Whiteside. Maybe a packet with our 2rd Pick, Ross and Vuc (or Biz) could be enough.
 
After that, our roster would look like this:
Young/Augustin/Mack
Fournier/Simmons/Afflalo
Isaac/Mario?/Iwandu
Gordon/Isaac/Mario?
Whiteside/Biz/Speights

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2 hours ago, magicblue said:

Why would we want Whiteside? Did you watch Miami vs. Philly

Buy low sell high!

I think we don't have to give up much to get a player who was one of the better Centers not to long ago.

The last time we got a player with a good playoff-run we overpaid for Biz. That's why I am not that high to go after Rozier.

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18 minutes ago, matthi32 said:

Buy low sell high!

I think we don't have to give up much to get a player who was one of the better Centers not to long ago.

The last time we got a player with a good playoff-run we overpaid for Biz. That's why I am not that high to go after Rozier.

The difference is that the overarching narrative following Biz's playoff run was that someone was going to overpay him stupidly.  Unfortunately it was us.  With Rozier everyone seems to agree he's pretty good. 

And the reasoning that we should go after Whiteside because he used to be decent isn't very sound.  Should we also grab Carmelo because he used to be pretty good?  Whiteside not only doesn't produce, he then blames others for his lack of production.  He has a terrible attitude that hurts his team.

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1 hour ago, matthi32 said:

Buy low sell high!

I think we don't have to give up much to get a player who was one of the better Centers not to long ago.

The last time we got a player with a good playoff-run we overpaid for Biz. That's why I am not that high to go after Rozier.

I don't think you're accounting for why Whiteside was an elite center not too long ago and changes in the way basketball is played that makes him not an elite center now. 

Whiteside is unplayable against certain teams because he can't defend in space on the perimeter. He's slow and plodding. Whiteside has value as a giant rim protector but that's not as significant if he can't hedge a pick and roll. 

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9 hours ago, matthi32 said:
After the first round of the playoffs, I am sure there are some unhappy teams. So I was thinking which player could be available or what can we offer the other teams. So let us start…
 
WAS:    After a disappointing season and some rumors about issues in the locker-room, maybe they look for some changes. Could Wall be available? What would it take to get him? Could we flip our Centers (Biz for Gortat)?
MIL:    They need definitely a Center who play some D. Could we trade Biz to the Bucks without taking back a bad contract?
IND:    Can’t see any possible trade
MIA:    I think the days from Whiteside in Miami are over. What would it take to bring him to Orlando?
OKC:    They need to upgrade their bench and/or SG. Are they willing to trade Adams for that? Would a packet of Fournier and Vuc (or Biz) be enough?
MIN:    Can’t see any possible trade
POR:    Are they still believe in the backcourt with Lillard and McCollum? Is there a chance to get one of them and what would it take?
SAN:    What will happen with Leonard? Is there any chance to get him without give away all our assets (Gordon, Isaac and our 1rd pick)?
 
I think many of the questions depends to what happens in the draft-lottery and how high we are on the rookies. If we pick somewhere between 4-6 I would take Young and try to trade for Whiteside. Maybe a packet with our 2rd Pick, Ross and Vuc (or Biz) could be enough.
 
After that, our roster would look like this:
Young/Augustin/Mack
Fournier/Simmons/Afflalo
Isaac/Mario?/Iwandu
Gordon/Isaac/Mario?
Whiteside/Biz/Speights

I like your overall thinking here. In my opinion, OKC, WAS and POR all need to shake things up.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yasvucd7

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya48n3a9

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On 4/30/2018 at 2:23 PM, matthi32 said:
After the first round of the playoffs, I am sure there are some unhappy teams. So I was thinking which player could be available or what can we offer the other teams. So let us start…
 
WAS:    After a disappointing season and some rumors about issues in the locker-room, maybe they look for some changes. Could Wall be available? What would it take to get him? Could we flip our Centers (Biz for Gortat)?
MIL:    They need definitely a Center who play some D. Could we trade Biz to the Bucks without taking back a bad contract?
IND:    Can’t see any possible trade
MIA:    I think the days from Whiteside in Miami are over. What would it take to bring him to Orlando?
OKC:    They need to upgrade their bench and/or SG. Are they willing to trade Adams for that? Would a packet of Fournier and Vuc (or Biz) be enough?
MIN:    Can’t see any possible trade
POR:    Are they still believe in the backcourt with Lillard and McCollum? Is there a chance to get one of them and what would it take?
SAN:    What will happen with Leonard? Is there any chance to get him without give away all our assets (Gordon, Isaac and our 1rd pick)?
 
I think many of the questions depends to what happens in the draft-lottery and how high we are on the rookies. If we pick somewhere between 4-6 I would take Young and try to trade for Whiteside. Maybe a packet with our 2rd Pick, Ross and Vuc (or Biz) could be enough.
 
After that, our roster would look like this:
Young/Augustin/Mack
Fournier/Simmons/Afflalo
Isaac/Mario?/Iwandu
Gordon/Isaac/Mario?
Whiteside/Biz/Speights

Washington 

John Wall isn't going to come cheap, both in regards to the cost of the trade to acquire him and the cost of his contract. He has one more season on a "reasonable" $19 million, before his deal shoots up to $37.8m, $40.8m, $43.8m and $46.8m - this is excluding this 15% trade kicker. If we did a deal for Wall it would likely include multiple first round picks, at least one young talent (Isaac or Gordon), and possibly one of our better veterans (Fournier or Simmons). 

Milwaukee 

I suppose we could offer them Biz, he's got two seasons left on a $17 million deal the second of which is a player option, but I don't see a deal that works for both parties. We'd probably have to take some combination of John Henson, Tony Snell, and Mattew Dellavedova, which is not very appealing. 

Miami

If a team like Miami have cut his minutes and his role like they have, and their head coach Erik Spoelstra has apparently had issues with him, then that is enough for me to not want Whiteside here in Orlando. Their head coach is well respected around the league and not known for butting heads with players, whereas Whiteside is known to have a questionable attitude. I don't want a player like that here unless they are special and Whiteside isn't special. Miami started to adopt a more modern style and that led to a reduction in Whiteside's minutes. If we want a modern style basketball team, Whiteside isn't the guy to bring on board. 

OKC

This team could be in a tough situation if Melo and PG opt out and leave town. The deal would need to be centered around them removing protection from their 2020 first round pick and possibly including another pick since they are fairly light on ascending talent. I wouldn't mind adding Adams, but his deal is fairly costly and we should ideally be taking on expiring contracts and trying to rid ourselves of burdensome multi year contracts to maximize cap space. 

Portland

The issue in Portland is that Lillard and McCollum's contracts are feature hefty cap hits for the next three years. I would prefer adding Lillard because he could be our point guard but it would be a costly acquisition. Much like any deal for John Wall, it would need to include multiple first round picks and some talent. I don't see a deal working out well for us. 

Spurs

I could see us trying to do a deal for Leonard, but we would arguably need to send Isaac or Gordon to the Spurs (this isn't a major issue since Leonard and whoever is left can start at the forward positions) and at least this year's first round pick. It is likely we would need to send another first round pick and possibly another talent like Fournier to even up salaries and give them someone that can help them remain competitive. One issue here is whether Leonard would want to come here and stay here, and the other issue is whether we believe he can stay healthy enough to build a contender around. 

~~~

For me, I do think there are potential trades to be made this off season but I suspect we are more likely to be looking at salary dumps for draft picks than making significant moves to reshape our roster. 

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I think talentwise Whiteside would be a upgarde to what we have now. I agree with you, that his attitude is a risk. But why gave Miami him that contract? Maybe something happen in the last year that we all don't know. His prize is at the bottom now and we don't have to give up much for him. Worst case: we get a player with high salary for the next 2 years. Best case: slove our problem at the center position.

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