2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

[Odin 137]

Double post

[Ibn Battuta 127]

 

2 hours ago, Magicman28 said:

He has scored doubles figures a few times. He also missed 3 months. Go look him up at NBA.com

Ok, three times. Should I be impressed?  

his health is another issue altogether. 

[Ibn Battuta 127]

4 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

I don't really care what you think of my judgement. It's a really hard argument to make that a guy who is among the bottom 3 or so players who got real minutes this year in true shooting percentage is good. It's not a lonzo specific argument. Isaac was bad. Ntlikina was bad. Fox was bad. Jackson was bad. Collins was bad. Monk was bad. DSJ was bad. Our pick this year will most likely be bad. Rookies are usually bad. 

You're just ignoring everything else Ball does. If TS is your end all be all criteria that’s cool. You’re also just making a general, blanket statement and throwing in a bunch of names to make a point that’s not being discussed. 

Anyway, I'm not in love with Isaac like the rest of this board seems to be. If all you can say is that he made a few defensive plays, sorry that just doesn't impress me. The fact is, based on his rookie season, he showed very, very little in terms of offensive capability. And his ability to stay healthy is a huge concern. 

[Originalticketholder 133]

3 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

I don't really care what you think of my judgement. It's a really hard argument to make that a guy who is among the bottom 3 or so players who got real minutes this year in true shooting percentage is good. It's not a lonzo specific argument. Isaac was bad. Ntlikina was bad. Fox was bad. Jackson was bad. Collins was bad. Monk was bad. DSJ was bad. Our pick this year will most likely be bad. Rookies are usually bad. 

?4thewin gets a +  for this post that I cannot even give.  But he hits the nail on the head.  His point affirms why owners hate the "one and done" rule and want to change it. Freshmen, for the most part, are going to be bad and cannot be evaluated on that first year alone.  1 or 2 seem to be able to contribute at best and some never.  Philly, the best tanker ever, only hit 3 out of 5 with top 3 (maybe will be 4 out of 6 with Fultz) picks every year and that was top 3 picks.   We gave up on Oladipo (huge mistake) and gave up on Hezonja (may be mistake #2), Gordon finally developing in year 4, Isaac has all the skills to develop into a very good player.  Point is you cannot give up too early especially where we are drafting   Owners tired of paying and having to wait on development and want three years out of high school eligibility, players want to go back to high school eligible.  I hope the NBA compromises and enacts both--you can apply out of high school and if not, have to wait three years.  Teams will not draft that many straight out of high school slowing down the exodus of "the kids"!!  

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

7 minutes ago, Originalticketholder said:

?4thewin gets a +  for this post that I cannot even give.  But he hits the nail on the head.  His point affirms why owners hate the "one and done" rule and want to change it. Freshmen, for the most part, are going to be bad and cannot be evaluated on that first year alone.  1 or 2 seem to be able to contribute at best and some never.  Philly, the best tanker ever, only hit 3 out of 5 with top 3 (maybe will be 4 out of 6 with Fultz) picks every year and that was top 3 picks.   We gave up on Oladipo (huge mistake) and gave up on Hezonja (may be mistake #2), Gordon finally developing in year 4, Isaac has all the skills to develop into a very good player.  Point is you cannot give up too early especially where we are drafting   Owners tired of paying and having to wait on development and want three years out of high school eligibility, players want to go back to high school eligible.  I hope the NBA compromises and enacts both--you can apply out of high school and if not, have to wait three years.  Teams will not draft that many straight out of high school slowing down the exodus of "the kids"!!  

I don't think you have any grasp of what owners want at all. 

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

15 hours ago, Ibn Battuta said:

with that logic you could also argue Lonzo Ball was one of the worst players in the league. His shooting percentages were the worst for any starter and possibly the worst of all players. But not many people will believe that. 

Lonzo isn't one of the worst players in the league since he defends and does other things. His problem is that he'll never been a lead guard on a good team with how bad his shooting is. DSJ was trash at just about everything and didn't show any indication that he'd be good in the NBA. What killed Isaac's overall offensive numbers was how poor he was on his 2PT jumpers (shot in the teens), he shot almost 35% from three and finished well at the rim (81%) despite being one of the frailest players in the league. These are good indicators for a guy who already averaged a block and a steal in 19 MPG and is only going to get stronger. Patience my dude. I don't think he'll ever be a creator on offense but 15 PPG on low usage/good efficiency with DPOY potential looks possible.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

36 minutes ago, Ibn Battuta said:

You're just ignoring everything else Ball does. If TS is your end all be all criteria that’s cool. You’re also just making a general, blanket statement and throwing in a bunch of names to make a point that’s not being discussed. 

Anyway, I'm not in love with Isaac like the rest of this board seems to be. If all you can say is that he made a few defensive plays, sorry that just doesn't impress me. The fact is, based on his rookie season, he showed very, very little in terms of offensive capability. And his ability to stay healthy is a huge concern. 

True shooting percentage isn't the only criteria but when you're among the worst in the league at scoring points it should mean something. 

It's great that lonzo gets some rebounds and plays solid defense but I'm not sure how good you have to be at that to overcome outlier level free throw shooting. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Just now, Bauncey Chillups said:

Lonzo isn't one of the worst players in the league since he defends and does other things. His problem is that he'll never been a lead guard on a good team with how bad his shooting is. DSJ was trash at just about everything and didn't show any indication that he'd be good in the NBA. What killed Isaac's overall offensive numbers was how poor he was on his 2PT jumpers (shot in the teens), he shot almost 35% from three and finished well at the rim (81%) despite being one of the frailest players in the league. These are good indicators for a guy who already averaged a block and a steal in 19 MPG is only going to get stronger. Patience my dude. I don't think he'll ever be a creator on offense but 15 PPG on low usage/good efficiency with DPOY potential looks possible.

I disagree. DSJ showed flashes of lead guard skills. 

[Ibn Battuta 127]

13 minutes ago, Bauncey Chillups said:

Lonzo isn't one of the worst players in the league since he defends and does other things. His problem is that he'll never been a lead guard on a good team with how bad his shooting is. DSJ was trash at just about everything and didn't show any indication that he'd be good in the NBA. What killed Isaac's overall offensive numbers was how poor he was on his 2PT jumpers (shot in the teens), he shot almost 35% from three and finished well at the rim (81%) despite being one of the frailest players in the league. These are good indicators for a guy who already averaged a block and a steal in 19 MPG and is only going to get stronger. Patience my dude. I don't think he'll ever be a creator on offense but 15 PPG on low usage/good efficiency with DPOY potential looks possible.

but is that anything to get excited about? Even if that does happen it will take YEARS, possibly on his next contract! 

It's why I'm not losing any sleep if he's included in any trade scenario. Who wants to wait several years for some hypothetical, fantasy version of what he could be. And even that final player, it's a good player but not some outstanding, generational talent to take us to the next level. 

[Magicfan1987 266]

3 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

Eh. No. Simmons is great. 55% on twos

that doesn't change the fact that the guy can't shoot. there are no perfect rookies and everyone needs development,  especially Benjamin Simmons

[Magicfan1987 266]

32 minutes ago, Ibn Battuta said:

but is that anything to get excited about? Even if that does happen it will take YEARS, possibly on his next contract! 

It's why I'm not losing any sleep if he's included in any trade scenario. Who wants to wait several years for some hypothetical, fantasy version of what he could be. And even that final player, it's a good player but not some outstanding, generational talent to take us to the next level. 

you realize you'll be waiting years for any hypothetical positive from this team  "You have to take your medicine"-Weltman

[Soul Bro 1,419]

For those who remember Ball Junkie, his son just committed to FSU as the top distance runner in the state: 

http://www.theledger.com/sports/20180415/lake-wales-stafford-signs-with-florida-state