2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

[Mike1989 68]

21 hours ago, Magicpassion said:

That will go down as one of the most embarrassing moves ever made by a GM; getting fleeced by Philly. Hennigan may never live that down! We need better intel.

If memory serves the Payton trade involved us sending them Saric, giving them back their first round pick from 2017 onward which was protected, and a 2015 second round pick that turned into Richaun Holmes. 

So essentially the trade was not that embarrssing because Payton has become a solid if unspectacular player and Saric had become a solid PF. Hindsight says we should have stuck with Saric and kept those picks, but is Saric an all star in waiting? Perhaps, then again he could be merely a useful stretch four. 

Now if we had the rights to their first round pick with no protection then this deal would be totally different because in 2017 they picked third overall and that player was Jayson Tatum. We could have drafted Jackson or Fox. So that would have been difficult to stomach, but thankfully that pick had protection and would only have come to us when they made the play offs or fell below a certain pick in the draft.

[Mike1989 68]

3 hours ago, Ibn Battuta said:

The Sixers swapped picks with the Kings from a later deal. I think it was only top 7 protected but I don’t remember the exact protections.

Tbh it doesn’t matter for us because our drafting record has been so awful. An early teens pick is still a good pick but I have no faith that this franchise can find the best player (at that spot). 

 

3 hours ago, Ibn Battuta said:

I did some research and the pick would’ve been top 7 protected this draft. Last draft it was top 11. Rn sixers are 18th selection. It’s not a bad pick in a deep draft but again I have no faith. The draft flattens at some point, right? 

And since we’re looking back, no I would have never done that trade. Saric looks to be part of their future as a rotation player. Payton didn’t even make it that far for us. 

From what I read the pick was protected and would only be conveyed to us from 2017 if they made the play offs:

https://www.libertyballers.com/2014-nba-draft-prospects-andrew-wiggins-julius-randle/2014/6/27/5848660/sixers-magic-trade-dario-saric-elfrid-payton-draft-picks

However, upon further reading it was top 11 protected in 2017 and top 8 protected in 2018:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/magic-basketblog/os-mbb-orlando-magic-philadelphia-76ers-payton-trade-20140629-post,amp.html

So what we've essentially missed out on is their pick this year which will be in the mid to late first round depending on how well they do in the second half of this season and the play offs. I guess that could have been useful for our rebuild but at the same time taking the risk on Payton made sense at the time because he had upside worth gambling on in a position of need after the Oladipo at PG experiment "failed".

 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

11 hours ago, Murphy13 said:

No. We traded what turned out to be Saric, Willy Hernangomez, and De'Aaron Fox for Payton.  It was a bad trade then, and still is now.  

"June 26, 2014: Traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Orlando Magic for Dario Saric, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Willy Hernangomez was later selected) and a 2017 1st round draft pick (De'Aaron Fox was later selected)."

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01.html

Nope: 

 

2017 draft: The Magic will receive the pick if it falls from 12th overall to 30th overall. If the pick falls from first overall to 11th overall, Philly will keep the pick and Orlando instead will receive a protected first-round pick in 2018.

• 2018 draft: The Magic will keep the pick if it falls from ninth overall to 30th overall. If the pick falls from first overall to eighth overall, Philly will keep the pick and Orlando instead will receive a second-round pick in 2018 and a second-round pick in 2019. (Why would the Magic forfeit a first-round pick? Because the new CBA prohibits teams from trading a first-round pick seven years out.)

[magicdoc1 261]

3 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

Nope: 

 

 

yes. The only thing valuable out of that is this year own philly first round pick which currently sits at 18. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

43 minutes ago, magicdoc1 said:

yes. The only thing valuable out of that is this year own philly first round pick which currently sits at 18. 

Which goes back to my point.  If you think there's a starter out there for a position of need and the cost of moving up is a mid first rounder 4 years from now you always make that move. 

[magicdoc1 261]

34 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Which goes back to my point.  If you think there's a starter out there for a position of need and the cost of moving up is a mid first rounder 4 years from now you always make that move. 

Absolutely. I was not against the trade then so I am in no position to criticize the move now. In all honestly, the difference now is a 18-20 first round pick vs a non-guaranteed 41 pick. Considering the cap space and how valuable it is at the moment, I am ok with the move and risk we took then and the move we just did. I mean, if we still want a late first round pick, we can easely trade our two early second rounders for a late first with a team that is looking to clear more room like the golden state, lakers(cleveland pick), okc etc....

[magicdoc1 261]

How about Noel. Will you consider give Noel the money intended for Payton if we draft a PG? Will that make people happy? is like trading Payton for Noel and a second. I dont think Noel is getting more than 10 millions a year. It will be interesting to see how Noel plays next to Gordon and Isaac with a chip on his shoulder. 

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

19 minutes ago, magicdoc1 said:

How about Noel. Will you consider give Noel the money intended for Payton if we draft a PG? Will that make people happy? is like trading Payton for Noel and a second. I dont think Noel is getting more than 10 millions a year. It will be interesting to see how Noel plays next to Gordon and Isaac with a chip on his shoulder. 

I like him but I don't know if it's realistic to spend even more money on the center position 

[Magicfan1987 266]

On 2/17/2018 at 3:58 AM, Ibn Battuta said:

I did some research and the pick would’ve been top 7 protected this draft. Last draft it was top 11. Rn sixers are 18th selection. It’s not a bad pick in a deep draft but again I have no faith. The draft flattens at some point, right? 

And since we’re looking back, no I would have never done that trade. Saric looks to be part of their future as a rotation player. Payton didn’t even make it that far for us. 

yeah let's just be completely blind to context and assume our front office makes decisions like a couple robots time and time again. so we could of had Bell and Kuzma,  they wouldn't of played ahead of Vuc Biz Gordon or Isaac so the point is pretty mute. This was an evaluation year, we got 2 guys in the draft our front office liked, Kuzma is a 0 on defense and Bell is an undersized backup big at best. Time to move on

[Magicfan1987 266]

52 minutes ago, magicdoc1 said:

How about Noel. Will you consider give Noel the money intended for Payton if we draft a PG? Will that make people happy? is like trading Payton for Noel and a second. I dont think Noel is getting more than 10 millions a year. It will be interesting to see how Noel plays next to Gordon and Isaac with a chip on his shoulder. 

I like Noels upside but he hasn't proven to be able to earn minutes on lottery teams, I worry he won't be in the league much longer

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

50 minutes ago, magicdoc1 said:

How about Noel. Will you consider give Noel the money intended for Payton if we draft a PG? Will that make people happy? is like trading Payton for Noel and a second. I dont think Noel is getting more than 10 millions a year. It will be interesting to see how Noel plays next to Gordon and Isaac with a chip on his shoulder. 

Theres no real cap savings by not having Payton.  We'd probably have to sign him with an exception that we'd still have if we kept him.  

[Magicfan1987 266]

19 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

Which goes back to my point.  If you think there's a starter out there for a position of need and the cost of moving up is a mid first rounder 4 years from now you always make that move. 

yeah 4 years is typically a safe bet especially if you're banking on NOT BEING COMPLETE GARBAGE 4 YEARS DOWN THE LINE but how could Rob of known that??

 

I liked the trade when it happened a lot and still don't mind it just didn't work out for us as well as it could of