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Fultz4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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1 hour ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

I don't know what it is, but lately I've been having this weird optimism. I'm usually a pessimistic person when it comes to basically everything, but if we are able to re-sign Mario we have a path to become great.

All this Mario Hezonja love was a little tongue-in-cheek by the Magic twitter community months ago, but now the guy is actually looking like a potential star.

I think Mario, Gordon and Isaac have all the tools to succeed in today's NBA and I'd be ecstatic if we were able to keep all 3 here for next season.

We'll have another great young piece if we're able to draft one of the creators (Young or Doncic) or one of the rim protecting bigs (Bamba or JJJ)

Like it! I dont mind keeping Fournier but we need to somehow trade Vuc to secure one of those guys.

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2 hours ago, Originalticketholder said:

I think I get your point.  Br aggressive and use assets to get a player with a position of need who has the potential to be the face of the franchise and transform it.  Take a risk rather than settle for the safe pick in a position you do not need.  If that is correct then I think you may have used a good example in Young.  Young averaging +29 points/game, 37% 3 pt average, 44% shooting average, range is 25 feet, 85% FT shooter.  He is not Payton because he can already shoot--no learning curve.  9 assists per game and 4 rebounds per game.  Payton's college numbers=14 points/game, 5 assists per game, 49% shooting average 26% 3 point average, 60% FT average.  Need individual workouts obviously so Young may not be the guy but he is worth considering so I think he may meet your criteria.  If I got the point you were making correct?

No.  

Just that trading for Payton was the right move at the time.  He was worth betting on.  And he proved it. And it'd  be no different than taking a swing on trey young now. Because what exactly did we lose? Saric and a mid teens pick? I'm not losing sleep over that.  

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10 hours ago, Originalticketholder said:

If my support for trading Payton makes me blind, biased, wrong, ignorant, and in need of virtual Lithium I plead guilty.  I base my reasoning on what I see and what I read.  Perhaps his skills were not developed by this team, perhaps he was to blame, but experts (not us) never ranked him higher than  24th in PG rankings in 3+ years.  His shooting % may have improved but his shooting effectiveness NEVER improved because he never spread the floor due to his shooting.  His strength---his defensive effectiveness, backed up by stats and outside experts (not us) whose visual observations and  subsequent opinions said he never did not fit our system.  Outside experts (Not us) questioned his motivation, his improvement in fitting into what the Magic were trying to do.  But no matter what the reason, even if it was our coaches, I think we can agree EP and the Magic were not a good fit.  Maybe he will be a good fit for another team but that does not mean we should have kept him and does not mean anyone who supports this move dislikes him.  I think we will be a better team with a different point guard and I think the FO thinks the same thing thus the trade.  

Actually his shooting effectiveness has improved every year, and made a significant jump this season.  His defensive deficiencies were magnified by a team that was anemic to defense itself; to blame it on him is irresponsible at best.  All that other stuff is conjecture based on probably very local coverage.  I agree that it was time for  him to move on, but not due to the circumstances you mention.  

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1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

No.  

Just that trading for Payton was the right move at the time.  He was worth betting on.  And he proved it. And it'd  be no different than taking a swing on trey young now. Because what exactly did we lose? Saric and a mid teens pick? I'm not losing sleep over that.  

No. We traded what turned out to be Saric, Willy Hernangomez, and De'Aaron Fox for Payton.  It was a bad trade then, and still is now.  

"June 26, 2014: Traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Orlando Magic for Dario Saric, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Willy Hernangomez was later selected) and a 2017 1st round draft pick (De'Aaron Fox was later selected)."

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01.html

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3 hours ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

That's a great way to put it. I love the boldness of trading up, I just thought it was dumb to put your hopes in a point guard that couldn't shoot at all, especially when you already had another guard with a questionable shot. One of my few disagreements with Hennigan when it came to player evaluation, actually.

Payton and Vucevic are dinosaurs in this league. We gave up on one, and we'll only start moving forward when we move the other out of town or to the bench. They're becoming extinct just like back to the basket, 6'8 power forwards that can't hit the 3

Just because a point guard doesn't shoot volume threes like Steph doesn't mean he's a dinosaur, have you watched him play? He's playing like how everyone though Shaun Livingston would before his injury-and that's a great thing.  

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4 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

Yessssss

 

 

That ending..........so....perfectly referenced that its refreshing.    

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6 hours ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

I don't know what it is, but lately I've been having this weird optimism. I'm usually a pessimistic person when it comes to basically everything, but if we are able to re-sign Mario we have a path to become great.

All this Mario Hezonja love was a little tongue-in-cheek by the Magic twitter community months ago, but now the guy is actually looking like a potential star.

I think Mario, Gordon and Isaac have all the tools to succeed in today's NBA and I'd be ecstatic if we were able to keep all 3 here for next season.

We'll have another great young piece if we're able to draft one of the creators (Young or Doncic) or one of the rim protecting bigs (Bamba or JJJ)

I love the young nucleus we have if we can keep Mario.  Plus make sure we are in the top 5 of the draft.  The other thing I still think is possible is with Philly.  Right now they have pick 10, 17 plus 4 (four) second round picks.  I would target pick 17 because I think Philly might not want all those picks.  Currently Clippers have pick 12 and 14 so I would talk to them too.  I am sold on Bates-Diop and his skillset (to add to our top pick Doncic/Young/Bamba/JJJ) since he is another solid defender who can shoot.  If that is our nucleus I think we wave goodbye to the lottery for a long time.

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6 hours ago, Murphy13 said:

No. We traded what turned out to be Saric, Willy Hernangomez, and De'Aaron Fox for Payton.  It was a bad trade then, and still is now.  

"June 26, 2014: Traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Orlando Magic for Dario Saric, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Willy Hernangomez was later selected) and a 2017 1st round draft pick (De'Aaron Fox was later selected)."

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01.html

We most definitely didn't trade the pick Sac used for DeAaron Fox. Pretty sure that's incorrect. The pick wouldn't have conveyed to us due to protections.

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13 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

We most definitely didn't trade the pick Sac used for DeAaron Fox. Pretty sure that's incorrect. The pick wouldn't have conveyed to us due to protections.

The Sixers swapped picks with the Kings from a later deal. I think it was only top 7 protected but I don’t remember the exact protections.

Tbh it doesn’t matter for us because our drafting record has been so awful. An early teens pick is still a good pick but I have no faith that this franchise can find the best player (at that spot). 

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I did some research and the pick would’ve been top 7 protected this draft. Last draft it was top 11. Rn sixers are 18th selection. It’s not a bad pick in a deep draft but again I have no faith. The draft flattens at some point, right? 

And since we’re looking back, no I would have never done that trade. Saric looks to be part of their future as a rotation player. Payton didn’t even make it that far for us. 

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