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Fultz4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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24 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

We were hardly setting the world on fire when they were playing. In fact our record the past 13 games or so is close to 500.  We’ve been playing some of our best basketball without them.  I’m more worried they’ll push Birch and Hezonja out of the lineup. They’re the only ones really worth watching right now.  Do I really want to see more empty numbers from Vuch?

I’m curious what will happen with the rotation as the guys come back from injury as well. When Ross, Gordon, Isaac and Vucevic are healthy who is our 9 man rotation? Who do we take out? Unfortunately, Birch will be casualty # 1. Mario has to keep playing though, you can’t bench him. So, Augustin, Fournier, Hezonja, Gordon, Vucevic should start, in my opinion. Then, that gives you Simmons, Ross, Isaac, and Biyombo to round out your 9 man rotation in my opinion. With Ross/Simmons as ballhandler and “backup point”. Mack has also played well enough to play, much like Birch and of course Speights, but no coach runs a 12 man rotation. No idea how Frank will play it, but it’ll be interesting.

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8 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

Oh

My

God

 

Surely there would have been more to Tim's decision? That might have played a part but there must have been more to it

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Well.........................Isn't that depressing.  My favorite player of all time would have played for my "favorite team"*........WOO.............if someone didn't ***** IT UP!!

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10 hours ago, Murphy13 said:

I expect there were more behind-the-scenes reasoning for letting him go like we did than just what you said.  

I didn't say it was the exclusive reason but weltman pretty much breaks down his basis for trading Payton.  

1. The idea that we need to stay current with nba trends i.e. shooting from the point guard position 

2. Poor defense 

3. We could have resigned him to a low contract to preserve an asset (like the previous admin did with Tobias without the low contract) but that limits our future flexibility to hold onto an asset that doesn't really fit our plans going forward. The opportunity cost wasn't worth it. 

 

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1 minute ago, ?4thewin said:

I didn't say it was the exclusive reason but weltman pretty much breaks down his basis for trading Payton.  

1. The idea that we need to stay current with nba trends i.e. shooting from the point guard position 

2. Poor defense 

3. We could have resigned him to a low contract to preserve an asset (like the previous admin did with Tobias without the low contract) but that limits our future flexibility to hold onto an asset that doesn't really fit our plans going forward. The opportunity cost wasn't worth it. 

 

Yada yada yada. “I like this team”

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I have certainly have had a lot of misgivings for this franchise with some of their boneheaded moves in the past. However, for once I see light at the end of the tunnel. I see an experienced front office with a proven track record combined with our local G team for player development; and a fantastic facility to boot. I truly believe we are on track to build a special culture here, but this will take time. Unfortunately, the last front office left us a big hole to dig out of and realistically set us back 3 to 5 years. 

 

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16 hours ago, Mike1989 said:

When Payton was coming out of college he was compared to Rajon Rondo. I think the logic behind his selection was that they liked his size and athleticism and that he played defense. They knew they were taking a hit on shooting and scoring, but with strong defense and acceptable play making he could be our version of Rondo or Rondo-lite. Problem is he never came close. As you said, his defense never really translated, his play making was average, and his scoring was streaky. So the pick didn't work out. Maybe he'll do better elsewhere but we rightly moved on from him. 

Did Henny make the right move trading for him? Hindsight says no. But I can understand why we did go after him because he offered intriguing upside.

That will go down as one of the most embarrassing moves ever made by a GM; getting fleeced by Philly. Hennigan may never live that down! We need better intel.

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6 minutes ago, Magicpassion said:

I have certainly have had a lot of misgivings for this franchise with some of their boneheaded moves in the past. However, for once I see light at the end of the tunnel. I see an experienced front office with a proven track record combined with our local G team for player development; and a fantastic facility to boot. I truly believe we are on track to build a special culture here, but this will take time. Unfortunately, the last front office left us a big hole to dig out of and realistically set us back 3 to 5 years. 

 

I don't know. There seems to be a systemic problem going back to the inception of the franchise.  Botching the Shaq resigning.  Botching the Duncan signing. Hiring a GM that had no basketball experience.  Botching Dwight leaving.  Having your team president drunk dial Dwight in the middle of the night.  Botching the post Dwight rebuild.  Every outside hire being shocked at the lack of infrastructure. Consistent nepotism.  

If we pick third in 92 and draft Christian Laettner is the team even in Orlando today? 

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5 minutes ago, Magicpassion said:

That will go down as one of the most embarrassing moves ever made by a GM; getting fleeced by Philly. Hennigan may never live that down! We need better intel.

 He traded a pick 4 years in the future to move up 2 spots and draft a player that started 234 games for us.  

Our previous gm used a lotto pick on a guy that decided he didn't want to play in the nba. 

Keep things in perspective.  Drafting a guy who might be a starter at 10 is never embarrassing.  

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On 2/15/2018 at 9:57 AM, Murphy13 said:

When you consider that the guy in question is averaging 20/9/8 and his teammates have all improved their game and attributed it directly to his arrival and his coach singing the things you say he can't do, I think you could supplement the word blind with biased, wrong, ignorant and they would all fit, along with some other less nice words.  The reality of the situation is that there were a limited number of statistical metrics that showed Payton to struggle in a limited number of ways and you (and some others) ran with it, ignoring far more metrics that show how decent a player he actually is.  He was limited while he was here by coaches (in his own words) and it effected his confidence, for the rest of the season he isn't limited so it will be interesting to see where his consistency lies at the end of it all.  His talent was always there, consistency was always the key for him.  The ad nauseum part is me preaching balance and you thinking I am some sort of homer.  You are completely misguided.  

If my support for trading Payton makes me blind, biased, wrong, ignorant, and in need of virtual Lithium I plead guilty.  I base my reasoning on what I see and what I read.  Perhaps his skills were not developed by this team, perhaps he was to blame, but experts (not us) never ranked him higher than  24th in PG rankings in 3+ years.  His shooting % may have improved but his shooting effectiveness NEVER improved because he never spread the floor due to his shooting.  His strength---his defensive effectiveness, backed up by stats and outside experts (not us) whose visual observations and  subsequent opinions said he never did not fit our system.  Outside experts (Not us) questioned his motivation, his improvement in fitting into what the Magic were trying to do.  But no matter what the reason, even if it was our coaches, I think we can agree EP and the Magic were not a good fit.  Maybe he will be a good fit for another team but that does not mean we should have kept him and does not mean anyone who supports this move dislikes him.  I think we will be a better team with a different point guard and I think the FO thinks the same thing thus the trade.  

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13 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

 He traded a pick 4 years in the future to move up 2 spots and draft a player that started 234 games for us.  

Our previous gm used a lotto pick on a guy that decided he didn't want to play in the nba. 

Keep things in perspective.  Drafting a guy who might be a starter at 10 is never embarrassing.  

100% agree!  I was thrilled and supported the trade when it happened because of our need at PG.  What is better is we did play him and give him a chance to succeed in our system.   It just did not work out.  The Hezonja scenario bothers me more.  Draft a player 5th and not give him the opportunity.  Hope we can sign him back and that does not haunt us!

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1 hour ago, fan for too long 2 said:

Yada yada yada. “I like this team”

 

Paytons’s trade was a “I dont like this team” move more than anything else.

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