2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

[Magicman28 295]

1 minute ago, magicblue said:

And I assert again, we didn't tank and we should have fully and completely. We half-assed it and then management became impatient. That's why we are where we are. This conversation is like Groundhogs Day.

Yeah it is and it's because we dont have **** to show for these last 6 years so we keep talking about the same ****. 

[magicdoc1 261]

18 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Go look at the advanced stats.

And how do you figure he'd have the same stats as Fournier? Again, go look at the advance stats. Plus the eye test says otherwise too.

I included the link ao you can see. I am not sure what “advanced stats” you are referring to.  

I agree with the eye test reason I said I like oladipo over Fournier.  But  what you dont see to realize is that Oladipo likely will not have those stats nor will be an all star by staying with the Magic. Indiana allowed him to be the player he is now. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

1 minute ago, JJZFL said:

Yes. Put together the best team you can and build from there. Get a good draft pick or two, make a good trade or two. Multiple posters have already documented in recent posts how this strategy has worked for multiple teams, and how none of the current top teams got to where they are by following the Philadelphia scorched earth tanking approach. Do you really think we’d be worse off than we are now if we had tried that?

The tanking strategy that you’re so excited about turns the team into a disaster when it fails.  Which is where we are right now.  

I think tanking is smart situationally. Like i think post Dwight we did the right thing.  We were stuck in salary cap hell and i don't think it's inappropriate to lose while transitioning from a playoffs or bust roster that mortgaged the future to build for 2010 to a roster with a window further down the road.  

We didnt really have options for free agents with all the old salary on the books.  

Literally the only problem with our rebuild is we had an extremely deep young team with Payton - oladipo - Fournier - Harris - Vucevic Gordon - Mario - shabazz -dedmon and then we traded oladipo and a pick for ostensibly ross and Harris, shabazz, and dedmon for Augustin, biyombo, and Simmons and it thinned out our depth.  

Had we just made lateral moves instead of downgrading we would have been fine.  

[Magicman28 295]

6 minutes ago, magicdoc1 said:

I included the link ao you can see. I am not sure what “advanced stats” you are referring to.  

I agree with the eye test reason I said I like oladipo over Fournier.  But  what you dont see to realize is that Oladipo likely will not have those stats nor will be an all star by staying with the Magic. Indiana allowed him to be the player he is now. 

Nah he would've. He was heading towards that direction anyways. Magic just go caught up with shooting.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/oladivi01.html

This is a good site to see advanced stats which is more individualized. NBA.com has them as well and you can break it down to scenarios like who plays better with certain lineups. We were better with Dipo than Fournier if I'm not mistaken.

[magicdoc1 261]

11 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Nah he would've. He was heading towards that direction anyways. Magic just go caught up with shooting.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/oladivi01.html

This is a good site to see advanced stats which is more individualized. NBA.com has them as well and you can break it down to scenarios like who plays better with certain lineups. We were better with Dipo than Fournier if I'm not mistaken.

 Not much of a difference at all.  Just the eye test. Which is more than enough for me. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

13 minutes ago, magicdoc1 said:

 Not much of a difference at all.  Just the eye test. Which is more than enough for me. 

62% of Fournier's shots were assisted that season.  

48% of oladipo's shots were assisted that year.  

Basically Fournier was asked to be more of a spot up shooter while oladipo had to create more for himself.  

Different players.  

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I'm not sure why we're having the tanking discussion this year. Is anyone really sitting here saying we HAVE to get Ayton?

Couldn't we just see what growth we can get from this roster without artificially handicapping it and draft wherever we end up drafting? 

I'd rather win and have a better idea of what Gordon is, what vucevic looks like in a post Payton world, how Mario can fit in a full roster, etc. Then we just draft whoever is at our slot.  

[Odin 137]

9 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I'm not sure why we're having the tanking discussion this year. Is anyone really sitting here saying we HAVE to get Ayton?

Couldn't we just see what growth we can get from this roster without artificially handicapping it and draft wherever we end up drafting? 

I'd rather win and have a better idea of what Gordon is, what vucevic looks like in a post Payton world, how Mario can fit in a full roster, etc. Then we just draft whoever is at our slot.  

Are you feeling more comfortable with the idea that we have a decent chance of resigning Mario?

[magicdoc1 261]

10 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

62% of Fournier's shots were assisted that season.  

48% of oladipo's shots were assisted that year.  

Basically Fournier was asked to be more of a spot up shooter while oladipo had to create more for himself.  

Different players.  

If course they were not different. They were playing different positions.  Oladipo also played some PG duties and had the ball on more posessions. Oladipo is a better all around player and more exciting for sure.

[billy5783 14]

14 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I'm not sure why we're having the tanking discussion this year. Is anyone really sitting here saying we HAVE to get Ayton?

Couldn't we just see what growth we can get from this roster without artificially handicapping it and draft wherever we end up drafting? 

I'd rather win and have a better idea of what Gordon is, what vucevic looks like in a post Payton world, how Mario can fit in a full roster, etc. Then we just draft whoever is at our slot.  

This is kinda where I am at this point. I guess depending on how you view Ayton, there isn't necessarily a sure bet franchise changer in this draft, so why not see where you end up and get a guy that can help build what we have as a core. Plenty of ways to build a competitive roster outside of completely tanking. Now, trusting our FO to do might be a different conversation, but we shall see.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

12 minutes ago, Odin said:

Are you feeling more comfortable with the idea that we have a decent chance of resigning Mario?

After seeing what Lou Williams got I'm much more optimistic.  

[Magicman28 295]

34 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I'm not sure why we're having the tanking discussion this year. Is anyone really sitting here saying we HAVE to get Ayton?

Couldn't we just see what growth we can get from this roster without artificially handicapping it and draft wherever we end up drafting? 

I'd rather win and have a better idea of what Gordon is, what vucevic looks like in a post Payton world, how Mario can fit in a full roster, etc. Then we just draft whoever is at our slot.  

Because chances are we'll still be in purgatory. Unless Isaac is KD with defense and AG becomes Griffin.

And I don't like DJ as our long term starting PG.