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Fultz4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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1 minute ago, Magicman28 said:

Yeah but I'm starting to believe we rather not sign anyone to a big contract unless it's a franchise player.

You know how boston is always like "I'm open to trading (asset) but only if you overpay so much that theres no doubt that i won this trade."

I think we did that with Gordon.  I think he's thought of as "someone who might be good" and we wanted to see if we could flip him for a player without the "might"

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2 hours ago, The Neighborhood Bully said:

https://nypost.com/2018/02/08/why-knicks-picked-emmanuel-mudiay-over-elfrid-payton/

Payton and Biz for McDermott and Noah makes the Payton to Phoenix deal look pretty good.

 

It really does! Biz is very playable and Noah is not and he makes a lot more money. In would have liked to get a late 1st for EP but there just wasn't any GMs that think he is as good as  a few stray fans on this board do and I'm very happy not to ever see his hair flopping up and down the court in a Magic uniform ever again. I hope we keep DJ to mentor the PG that we draft. Hey, how about last night, zero turnovers from our 2 PGs!

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18 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

You know how boston is always like "I'm open to trading (asset) but only if you overpay so much that theres no doubt that i won this trade."

I think we did that with Gordon.  I think he's thought of as "someone who might be good" and we wanted to see if we could flip him for a player without the "might"

Maybe but I think part of their next evaluation is going to be the question "Should we pay AG if Isaac is a better option at the 4? If not what can we get for him in a sign and trade."

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12 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Maybe but I think part of their next evaluation is going to be the question "Should we pay AG if Isaac is a better option at the 4? If not what can we get for him in a sign and trade."

It will be a critical evaluation process.  If AG gets a "Porter like contract" offer at $26 million per year, even say $20 million per year and we are at $78 million base salary. Yikes! Probably why the FO "gauged" interest on what other teams might offer.  I would say AG is in the "might be a star" category, probably at the high end of that category and may stay there.  AG in a 3 body that plays the 4.  Hoping Isaac who has a 4 body can play the 3.  Gordon and Isaac together could be lethal. That would work for me.  Debate will rage when we have to match but I still think we will match because you don't have much choice.  Think of the rebuild if you just let AG walk if sign and trade is not possible.

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7 minutes ago, Originalticketholder said:

It will be a critical evaluation process.  If AG gets a "Porter like contract" offer at $26 million per year, even say $20 million per year and we are at $78 million base salary. Yikes! Probably why the FO "gauged" interest on what other teams might offer.  I would say AG is in the "might be a star" category, probably at the high end of that category and may stay there.  AG in a 3 body that plays the 4.  Hoping Isaac who has a 4 body can play the 3.  Gordon and Isaac together could be lethal. That would work for me.  Debate will rage when we have to match but I still think we will match because you don't have much choice.  Think of the rebuild if you just let AG walk if sign and trade is not possible.

I think AG is in "I'm a good 2nd option player who will get some all star consideration, maybe even appear in 1", category. I don't think he'll ever be "a star".

If management decides to groom Isaac as a AD clone, I don't think AG sticks around long.

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55 minutes ago, Originalticketholder said:

Thanks.  I was unaware of that fact.  Still think we will match even though we may be looking at an "Otto Porter" type scenario.  Gordon listed as the #7 free agent available next summer.  He is seeting himself up and someone is bound to make a big offer.  Should keep the site busy when that happens!

I think we can not longer use Porters salary numbers as a comparison  anymore as It seems teams are working towards saving more cap space for the 2020 free agency more than anything else. 

I was glad to see Lou’s contract been executed prior the free agency the way it did.  That will give us more of a true player value/salary scenario. 

I think Gordon will not get a max money offered by any other team. He might get at most a 20-22 multiyear offer, if that. We will be in a very good position to resign  him. 

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2 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

So I'm significantly more optimistic that we can keep Mario than i was previously based on: 

1. Figuring out we can offer him more than 1 year

2. Seeing Lou Williams extension, i might have completely misjudged the upcoming market 

3.  Or really 2b. Seeing teams struggle to move mid level contracts this trade deadline. More signs of market issues.  

4. "He can make more money overseas". No.  No he can't.  Alexey Shved is the highest paid player outside of the nba and he's paid 3 years 10.2 million.  Andre Blatche is making 2.5 million per year in China. Rudy Fernandez is making around 3 million euros per year.  5.2 million dollars is 4.2ish million euros. Mario would need to be the highest paid European player by quite a bit to get more money than we can offer.  

I would add too, for what’s it worth, that Mario does seem to sincerely love the city of Orlando. Not saying that’s the end all—but it does mean something. It makes sense already coming from a different country and finally getting settled into a state that you’d want to stay here if you like the city. 

I’ll be so happy if we can keep him. 

Sexton/Fournier/Mario/AG/Issac 

This assuming we pick like 7 

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4 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

If you spent money for your bills betting on the eagles to win the super bowl you were correct in your analysis but its still not a very good decision.  

That's results oriented thinking.  

Skiles didn't like Payton because he imagines his point guards as extensions of himself (which makes sense, you coach to your experiences) and Payton is meek and inconsistent.  

If Payton's career path turns out like mcw ill be first to change my tune but you don't give up on 21 year old players that show promise. 

 

The entire point is that Skiles was right based on the results. Of course it's results oriented thinking, I'm reviewing Skiles' dislike of Payton now that we can see the results. I have admitted it would have seemed a nutty, but it would have been the correct move. The betting on the Eagles with bill money is a bad analogy, by the way. I don't have inside knowledge of the Eagles' chances of winning. Skiles coached Elfrid for a while, then determined he wouldn't measure up fast enough. It seems he had reason to believe this, whether it be the kid's attitude or acumen. The Super Bowl betting analogy would be closer if I, say, knew that Tom Brady wasn't playing and Bill Belliceck had a mental breakdown. The entire point of this conversation is to say that maybe Skiles knew what he was talking about. Again, you just assume that he couldn't have.

 

4 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

He literally threatened to quit mid season unless we got some of his guys.  

 

No. He didn't. Or, at least, we have no reason to believe that. There is nothing suggesting it. All the reports I've read state that he was unhappy mid-season; he mentioned that he was questioning his decision to take the job to Adrien Griffin, who blabbed to management; management had a meeting with Skiles to discuss his issues, which seemed to be about the inexperienced roster; in an attempt at appeasement, management made the Tobias trade; something that, again, needed to be done, but was botched in execution by the GM. Never have I heard of Skiles threatening to quit and giving an ultimatum. Any mention of that would have been all over the news. Also, if he'd been that crazy interested in 'his guys' he probably would have started one of them, especially since, as bad as he was, Jennings played at least as well as Payton the rest of that season.

 

Just because you believe something doesn't make it literally true.

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14 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

It wasn't right to give up on Payton 2 months into his second year.  No.  

The Skiles thing scarred Payton. Payton sucks because of Skiles. Payton is a Millennial snowflake. Millennials require tender love and affection, and Skiles gave none of it. In fact, the reason we suck so much is because of what Skiles did to the team. He sucked the life out of this team. In truth, we can blame Skiles for Nick Anderson missing those free throws against Houston in 1995. Nick was living under Skiles’ shadow and the pressure was too much.

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13 minutes ago, Catalina Maria said:

What if by removing Payton we actually start winning again? Should we abandon the tank?

Other than Henny's first year or two, they were never about the tank. This is why getting a franchise player is probably not going to happen for a long time.

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30 minutes ago, Catalina Maria said:

What if by removing Payton we actually start winning again? Should we abandon the tank?

Don’t think we’ve ever embraced the tank. We’re playing to win, Vogel won’t tank

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