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Fultz4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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1 hour ago, Payton4thewin said:

Its not that they're not likely to sign extensions.  It's that the two sides are not close enough on a deal (maybe not even past the initial inquiries) so a deal doesn't seem likely at all.  

If no deal the magic just wait until next summer where both guys will be restricted free agents allowing us to match whatever they're offered

In other words either were low balling them or they want max or close to it. Should be an interesting season and summer. 

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I'm stupidly hyped about this season and I can't tell if that's a good thing or if I've just forgotten all the lessons learned over the past 5 years.

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its preseason and nothing really matters until you can review possible indicators in hindsight. But last preseason our entire team had a poor defensive rating and we ended up with a poor defensive team. This preseason the entire team to a man has a good defensive rating so you gotta figure we have a system that works. you'd think that would translate some into the regular season.

 

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59 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

I'm stupidly hyped about this season and I can't tell if that's a good thing or if I've just forgotten all the lessons learned over the past 5 years.

Same here- trying to tell myself to be less hyped as it will probably end in disappointment like the last few years but - AARON GORDON IS GOING TO BE AN ABSOLUTE BEAST AND ALL OF THE REST OF THE GUYS ARE GOING TO BE GOOD AND WE ARE GOING TO WIN (more) GAMES!

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if this is the team (not necessarily notated by starter/bench, just listing the guys by position). Bold players are what looks to be the 9 man rotation. underlined players are good defenders.

payton-augustin-mack

Fournier-ross-simmons-afflalo

Isaac-hezonja-iwundu

Gordon-

vucevic-biyombo-speights-birch

Compare that to:

Payton-augustin-watson

Fournier-meeks-wilcox

Gordon-green-hezonja

Ibaka-rudez

vucevic-biyombo-onuaku-zimmerman

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I read an article that mentioned that Payton was mentoring Hezonja.  I think that is a good sign.

In 2012-13 when this rebuild began, you had a mismatch of young players with upside (Harkless, Harris, Vuc, Nicholson) that needed to play, but were surrounded by vets that were used to winning or not reported to be great teammates (Davis, Nelson, Redick, Turkoglu). 

In 2013-14 you add Oladipo and see Harris and Vuc as long term pieces to take up the leadership role.  Vets like Maxiell and Price are brought in to try to provide leadership, but leadership from bench pieces is difficult.

2014-15 this was going to be Harris, Vuc and Vic with Fournier, Gordon and Payton.  Channing Frye and Ben Gordon were going to provide some vet leadership. 

2015-2016 Harris gets moved aside.  Vuc, Vic, Fournier, Gordon and Payton are the core.  Hezonja is the up and coming 6th man.    Frye gets dealt.  Jason Smith is essentially the only vet presence on the team. Vic seems to be taking over the leadership role.  Skiles drags this group to 35 wins with a slump at the end that sends him running for the hills.

2016-2017:  Henny panics.  Assets are wasted on Ibaka.  Cap Space is wasted on Biyombo.  Vic is gone.  Gordon is playing out of place.  Ibaka is cashed in for half the original price.  Hezonja looks lost. 

 

The point of the painful recap is that except for the Skiles year where Vic seemed to be taking the leadership role (which was also the most successful season), Magic team leadership hasn't come from our most talented, or even our starting, players.  I'm pointing the finger at Vuc and Fournier who have been here the longest in starting roles.  Maybe that is unfair.  Maybe being European (language and cultural barriers) make leadership difficult.  So next up are Gordon and Payton.  If they are going to seize leadership of this team and demand others follow their lead, we could finally turn the corner.  Gordon definitely has that edge to be a great leader.  He works hard on getting better and can be vocal when he needs to be.  The problem with Gordon being the sole leader of your team though is the same problem with Jordan being your team leader.  He can physically do things others can't and he can do them easily.  Payton in the mix provides that buffer that checks an MJ coming out of his skin to berate players in practice for their inability to make the physical play.  

If Gordon and Payton are showing leadership on this team (as reported) I think it may be important to give them the extensions now.  Give them the keys.  Make this their franchise.  In my opinion we've turned the page on Vuc and Fournier.  Both are decent players and could play important roles on championship caliber teams, but they aren't worth what we are paying them to us.  If Isaac and Hezonja begin to demand minutes, I hope we find a way to turn Vuc and Founier into cap relief/future assets.     

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11 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

if this is the team (not necessarily notated by starter/bench, just listing the guys by position). Bold players are what looks to be the 9 man rotation. underlined players are good defenders.

payton-augustin-mack

Fournier-ross-simmons-afflalo

Isaac-hezonja-iwundu

Gordon-

vucevic-biyombo-speights-birch

Compare that to:

Payton-augustin-watson

Fournier-meeks-wilcox

Gordon-green-hezonja

Ibaka-rudez

vucevic-biyombo-onuaku-zimmerman

Should improve with stronger Guard/wing defenders. Also, no Jeff Green. That is a huge improvement.

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3 hours ago, Payton4thewin said:

if this is the team (not necessarily notated by starter/bench, just listing the guys by position). Bold players are what looks to be the 9 man rotation. underlined players are good defenders.

payton-augustin-mack

Fournier-ross-simmons-afflalo

Isaac-hezonja-iwundu

Gordon-

vucevic-biyombo-speights-birch

Compare that to:

Payton-augustin-watson

Fournier-meeks-wilcox

Gordon-green-hezonja

Ibaka-rudez

vucevic-biyombo-onuaku-zimmerman

With a changed philosophy, coaching continuity, natural progression of player development, and a revamped bench, I expect a significant improvement for this team.  To add, a weaker Eastern Conference, and we may be a top 6 team. 

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3 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

Haven't watched much preseason and seen some bad comments here about Mack but are we really expecting Augustin to play over him?

He has been playing well.  The run and gun style suits Augustin's strengths while hiding his defensive weaknesses.  Mack will adapt in time though, and is a proven defender. 

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12 minutes ago, Catalina Maria said:

  The run and gun style suits Augustin's strengths while hiding his defensive weaknesses. 

This isn't true at all.

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18 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

Haven't watched much preseason and seen some bad comments here about Mack but are we really expecting Augustin to play over him?

It's a strong possibility

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